Isles I1c

[Bachuil]

John Prebble wrote an excellent book on the subject.

[Bachuil]

Dear All, I think it is fair to say that most people come to this forum to satisfy their own interests.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jill, It is frustrating when you reach an impass in your family research and can not go back any farther. I think we all have experienced this at one time or another. It was fortunate for me that I located my great-great-great Miles Livingstone's marriage record which states he was a native of Morvern who was married at Bowmore on the Isle of Islay. Miles his second wife Janet (nickname Jessie) his son Donald Livingston (1796-1862) from his first marriage and a cousin? Donald Livingston (1796-1876) a fellow boatbuilder left Islay and the Highlands for British North America and Lord Selkirks Colony in June of 1812. All were originally from Morvern Parish in their records and it not clear that these Livingstons have a Lismore connection.) It is interesting that my ancestor Miles Livingston was recorded in a record from Lord Selkirk's colony at Red River in British North AMerica as being born abt. 1775 and there is that year a baptismal record taking place on the the Isle of Lismore of a Myles Livingston baptized in 1775 the son of Donald Livingston and Christian Campbell.

The Morvern Livingston families landlord was at this time the 5th Duke of Argyll, one of the more pleasant and enlightened of all the Campbell landlords of Argyll. Rather than emigrating to America, Donald found work as a carpenter or boatmaker on the Isle of Islay. It is possible that other our Livingstone relatives left Morvern/Isle of Lismore at this time. I think that Miles also had an Uncle on the Isle of Lismore with the name of Miles, but whether he followed Donald to the Isle of Islay, I don't know. We appear to have been lucky in the sense that Mile's father still had a choice to remain, others were later not so lucky and were cleared out or compelled to leave Morvern and the neighbouring Isle of Lismore in the 1800's. You mentioned I think that your ancestor left Argyll for Glascow; Doctor Livingstone's grandfather likewise left his home on the Isle of Ulva in nearby Mull in the 1780's to find work in the Lowlands. I found it interesting Doctor David Livingstone's older brother John by about the 1840's settled in Canada. So far I have not located any descendants in Ontario where they lived, but it is possible some still reside here.

[Bachuil]

Dear Donald, There is some misunderstanding here. We don't have a Clan Society for the USA - this forum is as close to Membership that we have at present. Lest their be any doubt, as far as I am concerned, you are undoubtedly a valued member of the Clan MacLea. Your family background is definitely Highland Livingstone/MacLea. Kindest Regards Niall

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Niall, Sorry for any confusion. I mean't Society membership inquiries on the main page. I thought from what I read there that I was required to contact Rob or someone to become a member. I am Canadian. We tend to get mistaken sometimes for Americans because of our proximity to one another, but actually we have a different culture and way of thinking about things generally speaking. That is not to say that most of us aren't impacted by Hollywood movies and Television programs from south of the border. Some of my father's ancestors were in fact American colonials, including Roger Williams the 17th century founder of Rhode Island and the Baptist Church in America, but the Clinks have lived in Canada for about 200 years. The Scottish, English and Irish component of my father's family came after the Napoleonic Wars to Canada. I have been honoured to participate in these clan discussions and to be a part of what you yourself have said is one of the oldest Clans in the Highlands. I regret I do not have all the pieces in the puzzle that is Miles Livingstone's family connection to you and your father, but what clues are there, Mile's descendants obviously have some tangible connection to Morvern and the Isle of Lismore. regards Donald

[Bachuil]

Sorry Donald - My memory is awful.

[Grant South1]

We have a hint of Isles I1c not only in co. Down, as represented by the McAleavey family in the old homelands, but I should mention we have located an Isles I1c McLean family. As we know the McLeans are recorded as descending from one of the Abbots of Lismore. To bring the readers of this forum up to date. The Trinity College Dublin Study regarding the Y-DNA of founder-lineages in Irish Clans has revealed that an I1c Isles founder-lineage in co. Down is the signature of the ancient Dal Araide {Irish Picts=Cruithne}. St Moluag himself was from Bangor, co.Down, and recorded to be of high birth within the Dal Araide. The Saint is also described as being an Irish Pict. So it would appear we have a clear association. To add another possible piece to the puzzle in the I1c Y-Clan Study, we find a Mitchell family also being Isles I1c. Mitchell is a surname of interest as it is recorded under the adherents of the Stewarts of Appin. Appin being the old abbey lands of the Abbots of Lismore. All highly interesting! I will be keeping a keen eye on this and will update the forum as new information comes to light. All the best! Grant.

[Jill Richmond]

Hi Donald, I'm sorry to have been a while in thanking you for your most informative e-mail. I seem to have been very busy just recently. As to the battle of Pinkie, the book "Famous Scottish Battles" only refers to Highlanders and Islanders being present, but no reference to any particular clans. The book itself is quite a good small reference book, and as I live in Scotland, I shall certainly have a use for it. Regards, Jill

[Bachuil]

Well Grant - this is interesting! My outlaws are Mitchells..... Regards Niall

[Grant South1]

OK- I've now found another 3 McLean families who've tested and look to be Isles I1c cousin's. This I believe supports evidence that we have found an enclave of Isles I1c in the old area of the Abbots. I'll keep digging! All the best! Grant.