Baronage Press

[Rob Livingston2]

Grant, you make one statement that confuses me: "3. And this has been due, in fact, that they are the sacral line of Lorne, as Lay Celtic Abbots, and related via matrilineal descent from the ancient royal House of Lorne from whose line all later Lords of Lorne have derived their ancient title and rights accordingly." Why do you say "related via matrilineal descent"?

[Rob Livingston2]

According to the "Senchus Fer an Alban", written sometime in the 10th century from texts of the 7th century, Loarn (the founder of Cenel Loarn) was the son of Fergus, son of Erc, son of Eochaid Muinremor.

[Grant South1]

Rob, Here I refer to the inclusion of the Royal Lyon within the heraldry of the chiefly arms. The convention in Scotland is that those families who descend from the derbhfine of the Dalriadic Kings in Scotland may bear this as the mark of royal Scottish descent. This is considered historically to be matrilineal. All the best!

[Grant South1]

Hi Andrew, Yes I do agree! But when the historical record matches the Y-DNA we have a degree of stability surrounding our findings. I believe in brief it has always been a question was the O'Neill genealogy true or not. I think this has been removed from our consideration as in itself it does not prove continuity in it's own lineage from the Ui Neill. The Ulidia lands covered both co. Antrim and Down, and that's just where we find the cluster. As the MacGregors have always been viewed as being the senior branch of the 'Siol Alpin'. I think the match speaks for itself. Although I can appreciate questioning it! All the best!

[Bachuil]

There are several points here: First the easiest - I would not expect a close DNA relationship with the MacLeans.

[Grant South1]

Dear Young Bachuil, I believe there is evidence in the Annals suggesting that the royal line of the Dal Fiacha had become one with the Dal Araide, if so, this explains both the Y-DNA and upholds the conventions surrounding succession.

[Bachuil]

I think so. Cathusach Mac Duinnsleibhe Ua Eochadha was described as king of D

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Hi Grant Which cluster has been found in Antrim and Down? Do you mean the Scots/Dalriata/Colla cluster? If so, then we must as good scientists keep in mind that this was also an area with many Scots colonists in later times, and so the details about who exactly carries this haplotype are extremely important. And I have not really been shown anything convincing yet. Best Regards Andrew

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Just a point I feel compelled to repeat: The DNA evidence concerns the so-called "Scots" haplotype of R1b, which is very common in Scotland. If we really want to be convincing in our theories about who is related most closely to whom *within* this prehistoric dynasty then I think *all our "Colla" haplotypes should test as many markers as possible*. In the meantime I'll do my best to encourage other clans to do the same. Certainly Mark MacDonald is of the same mind (he also a theory to prove!) One of of our Boggs group with Colla type has placed his order to DNA FP, and our possible Achnacree pair, Bill and Niall, have results trickling in. Rob? Niall? I believe Rob is already getting SMGF testing done (which may take years to come out). Maybe Niall can volunteer for DNA FP? Come to think of it, I reckon we should move ahead and get one of you tested for the *newest* 18 markers just available from Ethnoancestry. Best Regards Andrew

[Rob Livingston2]

Hi Andrew,