Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

A Read-only Archive of the old forum. Many useful messages and lots of family data!
edith
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:44 am

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by edith »

Another thought occurs to me, regarding the raft. I know there are forests in northern Minnesota, but I do not know that there were many trees along the upper Mississippi. Maybe there was not enough wood to build that many rafts. They had their Red River Carts, but I doubt they could have been made waterproof, or they might have thought of taking off the wheels and floating them down the river. The river was not optimally navigable, either, I think. There were not many trees at the Red River Settlement, either. In fact, that was one of Lord Selkirk's selling points - they would not have to use much time and energy removing trees and stumps before they could start farming.
User avatar
Jerry
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:48 pm

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by Jerry »

Hi John and welcome cousin!  Donald’s brother Hugh is my ancestor.  Neil & Ann were their parents.  You mentioned you had made it to Scotch Grove, did you make it to Hopkinton, or any of the Livingston/e gravesites/cemetery?  If not below are some links.  Donald Livingston's Tombstone in the Edinburg Cemetery in Jones County, Iowa http://iowajones.org/cemetery/edin/livi ... donald.jpg Livingston Cemetery outside of Hopkinton in Delaware County Iowa that my cousin still owns is where my ancestors are buried  Hugh & Isabella Livingston/e.  James Livingston is also buried here. http://iowagravestones.org/gs_view.php?id=129818 I put Livingston/e for certian ancestors as my Livingstone side of the family restored the "e" circa 1901 in Iowa. Regards, Jerry Schmidt
edith
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:44 am

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by edith »

Angus, born 1810 in Sutherlandshire, died 1898 in Hopkinton, Iowa. He was the son of Alexander and Ann Matheson. Alexander's mother was Jean (Polson), the "Widow Matheson". All came to the settlement in 1815, along with Alexander's sister Katherine and her husband Alexander Polson, their brother Angus and his new bride Christian, and their youngest sister, Helen, who married John McBeth in the settlement. My great-grandfather Angus also had two brothers and a sister, and one more sister born in 1817 in the settlement, who was one of the ancestors of Chloe Clark., archivist of The Lord Selkirk Association. More info you didn't ask for: Angus's younger brother, John, born 1814, was the father of Samuel Matheson, Archbishop 1905-1931. He was raised Anglican because his mother, Catherine, died when he was two. Her father was John Pritchard.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Edith, John Pritchard was one of the fortunate few to have survived in 1816 when Governor Semple, principal settler Alexander MacLean and others got into a confrontation with a North West Company party led by Cuthbert Grant and were slaughtered. Pritchard's life was spared because he was known to the Metis who worked for the north West Company and one of them intervened on his behalf. Pritchard became the prisoner of Cuthbert Grant and he offered to negotiate a surrender and removal of the remaining settlers from Red River avoiding further bloodshed which Pritchard accepted. You mentioned John Pritchard married a Macgillveray I think. I may have mentioned earlier that young Archibald McDonald a recruiter hired by Selkirk to go up to highlands was on the "Staffa" a small schooner in June of 1812 when it picked up Alexander Maclean and others of the Northern Mull group at Tobermory. Oddly enough Miles Livingston's minister at the church at Bowmore Isle of Islay wrote that Miles and his wife Janet boarded the Staffa following their marriage on June 20,1812 which was an amazing piece of luck for me. The Staffa took the second party of employees and settlers to the Port of Sligo, Ireland where they were greeted by Lord Selkirk and on 24th of June 1812 with favorable winds the "Robert Taylor" sailed with a group of mostly Northern Mull settlers, a few Isle of Islay residents including a Livingston party and group of Irish. Recruiter Archibald MacDonald who was to travel with the settlers that were on the Staffa was kept behind by selkirk at the last moment and did not board the Robert Taylor as originally planned. Selkirk saw his potential and wanted to prepare him with some medical training and to save him for the next assignment which was to gather a group of settlers from Kildonan which would constitute the third party. Young Archie spent some time with the Selkirk family and was well liked by the family. More about this third group and Archibald MacDonald later. I am hoping to get my hands on Archibald MacDonald's journal for the years 1812 to 1815 one of these days. I have in essense bits and pieces of it, but I would love the part for the year 1812. regards, Donald 
edith
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:44 am

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by edith »

That's interesting about Archie McDonald. I did not reply yesterday because I wanted to look through my messages from Chloe. When she used him for a source the citation says: NAC Selkirk Papers, Vol. 68. NAC = National Archives of Canada, maybe? I don't know if that will help you find the right microfilm. And I don't know how much time the journal covers. Two things Chloe quoted, for the family we were working on most recently, were the birth and death of a baby and the marriage of her parents (in that order), in March and June, 1815. So we know he was there before the 1815 party. Also, the Lord Selkirk Assn. history and genealogy book says, "The second party [not counting the working party of 1811, but counting the 1812 party as the first party of settlers], largely from Kildonan, Sutherlandshire, Scotland, sailed from Stromness, Orkney on the Prince of Wales, 28 Jun 1813, under the direction of Archibald McDonald of Glencoe and Dr. Peter Laserre from Guernsey, surgeon for the settlement passengers." Dr. Laserre was one of the passengers who died of the ship's fever. It also says that a relative of McDonald, Donald Stewart of Appin, died as well. Edith
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Edith, I found out while Selkirk sent Archibald McDonald to the settlement on the Prince of Wales on June 28 or 29th 1813 as you say and after the Doctor died aboard ship Archibald with some medical training assumed the leadership role aboard ship and in the difficult months to come before the settlers finally reached Red River. Selkirk hired an Archibald McLelland a former Hudson Bay Company employee who was of Sutherland as a recruiter and there were plenty of families wanting to go to  the REd River settlement since that year over a 100 families had been displaced in Clyne and Kildonan Parish by a sheep farm. The settlers arrived August 18th 1813 at Fort Churchill.Due to a number of problems they did not actually arrive at REd river settlement until the Summer of 1814. According to the Passenger List of the Prince of Wales there was a John Matheson of Aultbreakachy and Alexander Matheson of Keanved Parish, Sutherland. I generally refer to the first ship with Miles MacDonnell and employees etc. 105 in total which sailed on the Edward and Ann from Stornoway on the isle of Lewis on July 17,1811 as the first party and the second party with Irishman Owen Kenevy, the Irish, Mull and Islay group that sailed june 24, 1812 from Sligo Ireland as the second party. The third party contained Archibald McDonald and the first group of settlers from Kilodan and a few from Islay etc aboard the Prince of Wales which sailed out of Stromness in the Orkneys on June 28th or 29 1813. In any event the Prince of Wales was the third voyage. regards, Donald
edith
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:44 am

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by edith »

John Matheson of that party was the brother of my great-great grandfather Alexander. It is possible that the Alexander Matheson of that party was the brother of Christian Matheson, who married John and Alexander's brother Angus. It is not known for sure about that. Angus and Christian left lots of descendants, but it is hard for them to trace her ancestry. John, his wife Barbara Sutherland, her brother Heman, and this Alexander all were among the people who left the settlement in early 1815. I agree that it makes sense to count four parties. Edith
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Edith, Regarding your Matheson research I noticed that there was a Talbot Times a newsletter in 1996 of the Elgin County, Ontario branch of Ontario Genealogical Society that had a query from a Matheson kin named Phylis Lindsay. Apparently her relative John Matheson settled in Elgin County in the 1800's She has information on the Aultbreakachy, Sutherland Mathesons going back to the 1760's she states. Her relations in 1871 were John Matheson age 47 cordwinder son of John Matheson and Babara Sutherland wife Ann age 44 grace age 19 Charity age 17 Ruth age 15 John age 13 Prudence age 6 Agnes age 7 Concession 10 Lot 16 Dunwich Township, Elgin County, Ontario, Canada The Elgin County branch of the Ontario Genealogical Society may be able to still locate this Matheson researcher. Would these Aultbreakachy Mathesons be related to yours? regards, Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Edith, Looks like there was a John Matheson with the first Sutherland group that arrived in the Summer of 1814 and another John Matheson School master age 18 that arrived with second Sutherland group in 1815. I think you are saying that you were related to the John Matheson that arrived with the first Sutherland group in 1814. Cant understand how an 18 year old could be a school master. regards, Donald
edith
Posts: 0
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:44 am

Donald Livingston of the Red River Livingstons

Post by edith »

Answering your other message first - I forgot to mention the 18-year old John Matheson. We always thought he was the step-son of (Alexander, Angus, Katherine, John and Helen's oldest sister) Janet, and that her second husband was still another Alexander Matheson. Thus John would have been the widow Jean Matheson's step-grandson and that would be an explanation of why he was traveling with them. One problem with that is that Janet was known as the Widow Sutherland, not Janet Matheson, in the settlement. Chloe found a passenger list and other notes in the records that indicate that Janet arrived with "the other" Alexander and his wife and all the assorted children, in 1826, but she was a widow - and that she was Alexander's sister-in-law. Which would mean that either his present wife or his previous one, or maybe even both of them, might have been another sister of the family who we did not know about (both his wives were surnamed Matheson before marriage). There does not seem to be any way we will ever know. The records do not seem to be available from that far back. There are problems with this second theory also. There were lots of Jeans, Janets, Alexanders, and Mathesons, so someone got confused somewhere through the years. The young John later married a granddaughter of Jean Widow Matheson, who was also in the 1815 party, so that could be another reason he traveled with them - although she was a little younger than he, as I recall. I think it's possible he might have been considered a schoolmaster, even at 18. Teachers in this country were often younger than that. All he had to do was teach a little reading and arithmetic to the younger children on board the ship. This other message is new information for me. The Selkirk Settlers book only lists one son for John and Barabara, his name was Hugh. However, they only stayed in the settlement for a year or so, and when the genealogy was collected, the Association may not have known about any son named John. That would be an interesting point to pursue. I do not have my Matheson records handy and am not sure if I remember if Elgin County is where they went. There was also another John Matheson, whom we can't identify (that's another thing I forgot to mention before); he might have been the brother of that other Alexander we were talking about, the one in the 1814 party. Both Johns made the trip to Ontario. I read a story that said one was called "Red John" and the other "Black John" because of the color of their hair. I do not know which one was ours, but I'd bet it was "Red." My grandfather, John, was called "Red" and the family of Angus Matheson (my Angus's uncle) were said to be red-heads. Edith
Locked