"Gorm" (blue) Livingstones in Perthshire

[Andrew Lancaster]

I have been working on Perthshire Livingstones, and I'll get my work into a more clear form soon, but in the meantime I came across this subject not directly connected to what I was working on.

We know from the Account of MacLea that some Livingstones called themselves Gorm.

Here is an interesting snippet of information concerning Livingstones in the highlands of Perthshire...

http://www.commentonline.co.uk/sub-hist ... rnames.htm

"LIVINGSTONE, alias Gorm. This surname confined chiefly to Glenquaich; 1823, Donald, W. Shian; 1834, Donald, John, W. Shian. Colin Livingstone, the last parish schoolmaster of Fort William, belonged to this family. He was born at Balinreich, Strathbran, died at Fort William, and was buried in Glen Nevis. He used to say that the first Livingstone in Glenquaich came there to hide after Culloden, and hailed from Lismore. Colin claimed relationship with the great missionary and explorer, and was invited to attend the celebration of his centenary at Edinburgh, in 1913. He was a good Gaelic scholar, and was well acquainted with the traditions of Glenquaich."

The account of MacLea says...

http://www.macleay.cncfamily.com/account_of_mclea.htm

"In Perthshire the few of them that are there, some of them call themselves McPhetie who, as I am told, take that designation from the first of their name who came to Appin of Dull and was a servant to the then Laird of Weem, and his descendants call themselves McPhetie, his name being Peter of Patrick; but all of them own themselves to be Livingston but own they are McLea's. Others also of them call and design themselves Gorm, the first of them that came to Perthshire having had that designation and yet also own themselves Livingston and that they are come of the McLeas of Argyleshire. And there are some others of them call themselves McKenzies, being in the Earl of Seaforth's Country and under his Lordship there, as shall be afterwards told in this account, yet own themselves originally to be McLea's."

(I have been working on the MacPhetie branch lately, not the Gorms. But I have that Gorm sometimes appears as a surname in old records.)

Best Regards
Andrew

[Kyle MacLea]

Always good to be reminded of some of these surname "offshoots" that are a little unusual. What I'd love to see would be a DNA match that bears any of these out....

Interesting, and a useful resource, Andrew.

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Andrew,
There are also some families in Scotland interestingly enough with the name Gormley.
Interesting to see if Clan Mackenzie has a DNA project on the go and if someday down the road we could see if any of the Seaforth Mackenzie families match up with any Macleas or Livingstons we have tested. I am hoping to see what comes of a close comparison of Dr. Livingstone's great nephew's results with this descendant of a branch of the MacDougall family who seems to be some sort of match. I will see if I can get the wheels in motion on that one. It would be interesting if indeed his DNA match somehow matched closely with MacDougalls whose ancestors were long connected to Western Argyll, and to the MacDougall Lords of Argyll and Lorne. Or reversely this MacDougall's ancestors were connected to a family of ancient McLeas of which Dr. Livingstone's great nephews ancestor was a part.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Andrew,

Perhaps the original "Gorms" could be connected to Mcleas in more ancient times before we referred to ourselves as Livingstone or Mclea. Perhaps one of them long ago had striking blue eyes and was referred to as so and so, son of so and so with blue eyes. Blue being gorm. One of our fair haired ancestors might also have picked up the name ban. One with black hair -dubh. Red hair-ruadh. Grey hair-liath. Brown hair-donn or duinn

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

True, Donald. It does appear (like James Ban Livingstone) that some of these notations made it quite far into the modern (and English-speaking) Scotland. Back further than that, you can only imagine they were even more common.

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

John Ban Livingston a more recent example in our clan history. Much farther back in time an old Irish name associated with our clan "Dunnsliebhe". You will find this name in the old Irish Annals as well as "Maelmoire " an old Irish clergy name associated with celtic church in Western Argyll as well and with the Barons ancestors. There are different intrepretations of a precise english translation of Dunnsliebhe but I think it is safe to say that Dunn in this case could be brown and sliebhe is mountain as I understand it to be. "Brown of the Mountain" I think that was what Baron Livingstone said it was. Dunn can also mean fortified hill so perhaps a Brown haired Celtic warrior lived on a fortified hill or mountain a very long time ago.

The norse who were no strangers to Western Argyll such as King Olaf the Red father in law of Somerled certainly were known to identify themselves by their hair colour. Perhaps it was common to both Scots and Norse. It would be interesting to learn more about this.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

Speaking of Gorms that went to Perthshire with a connection to highland Maclea Livingstones one of the ancient ancestors of the Barons of Bachuil on the Island of Lismore was known as An Gorm Mor (big blue) of Achnaduin, Lismore. Also Donald Gorm Mor MacDonald 7th of SLeat married Mary Mclean of Morvern in the 1500's I think it was. It is quite conceivable that many of the highland Mclea Livingstone ancestors should have gone by names other than Mclea or Livingstone given that our clan folk stuck used the old patronymic name system prior to the 1700's. A good example of this is agreement between the Argyll Campbells and John McMaelmoire McVicar of Lismore in the 1500's. Clearly this person is an ancestor of the Bachuil Mclea Livingstones but at this time no effort is made to identify himself with a last name of Dunlea or Mconlea or Maclea or Livingstone as in later centuries. Gormley appears to be an Irish family rooted in old Donegal apparently though I know that some could be found in Scotland in more recent times.

regards,

Donald