Origin of Dundee Livingston - Alexander Livingston

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Edward,
As John as pointed out there are next to no Grizells showing up in the Scottish records. The name may be of Norman origin and family or families with this name subsequently settled in England in lowland Scotland I assumed although I find next to none in Scotland in the available records so far. Some in England and I am getting the impression that Grizzells settled in the Southern United States with Scotch Irish that ended up in the Southern States in the 1700's. I assume that these Grizzell families that settled in the Southern United States originated from northern Counties of 18th century Ireland such as County Down or County Antrim but really dont know anything much about Grizzells. There is a Grizzell family forum I think connected with Genealogy.com and those Grizzell kin probably know a lot more. My area of expertise is somewhat limited to Macleas and Livingstones. And unfortunately we dont have information which establishs a definite Irish connection to your Scottish Livingston family. Although the fire in the Publlic Records Office in Dublin in 1922 destroyed a signficant amount of census and other records we do know that Presbyterian Lowland Scottish Livingston families were well established in Counties of Down and elsewhere in Ulster in the North by the mid 1600's. The surviving information make that quite clear.
Interestingly, some of these "Scotch Irish Livingston's subsequently settled I believe on the neighbouring Island of Islay in Southern Argyll, Scotland in he 1600's or early 1700's and in the Southern United States in the United States in the 1700's. The Vikings found the Island of Islay quite useful as a base in which to raid and pillage the Northern coast of Ireland given its close proximity.

One family identified as Scotch Irish settled in what is today the State of Georgia and another later in North Carolina. Around the same time as this North Carolina family establihsed itself in North Carolina other Livingstons from Western Argyll, gaelic speaking Maclea Livingstons established themselves with other old gaelic speaking Western Argyll clans like Carmichaels and Stuarts in rural North Carolina. THe people of North Carolina today continue their Highland traditions, highland games etc.

My research has indicated that by the late 1700's these Scotch Irish Livingstons situated on Island of Islay in Southern Argyllshire were joined by Western Argyll, gaelic highland Macleas who by this time referred to themselves as Livingstons as well. There are a number of theories why the gaelic speaking Macleas of Western Argyllshire ended changing their name to Livingstone or Livingston in the mid 1700's. DNA testing seems to be supporting the possibility of two distinct "Livingston" family groups on the Island of Islay in the 1700's and I am continuing to explore this possibility. My ancestor Miles Livingston of Morvern Parish in Western Argyllshire resided briefly on the Isle of Islay where he apparently found work as a carpenter, barrel maker and ship builder before in 1812 settling in what later became Canada. There was a whiskey industry there and other sources of employment for skilled laborers from Mull and neighbouring Morvern Parish and many young men from those parts of Western Argyll seemed to find on Islay in the late 1700's and early 1800's. Miles although residing briefly with cousins on the Island of Islay in the late 1700's and early 1800's was from Morvern Parish, Western Argyll according to his marriage record and dna testing of his direct Livingston descendant has shown that his family was connected to other Morvern and mull Maclea Livingston families of western Argyll and not to the Scotch Irish Livingston family group situated in the southern part of the Island of Islay.

The particular "Scotch Irish" Livingston group that settled on Islay does not seem to have any significant connection to those Lowland Scottish Livingstons who seem linked to the old Callendar Livingston family but my sense is that there is more than one Livingston family group from the lowlands that settled on Ireland and at least one of these apparently did have a connection to old aristocratic Callendar Livingston family. More DNA Testing of Livingstons or SCotch Irish origin I think will eventually prove that there was more than one Livingston family group that settled in Ulster by the mid 1600's, but we just have to wait and see and that could take a few years. It is encouraging however that we have already established through the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society DNA Project a begining for better identifying any of the Livingstons out there who are of "Scotch Irish" origin.

I am hoping that in the future more Scotch Irish Livingston research will be undertaken as we just dont know enough about these families except that there were Presbyterian lowland scots well established in Ulster by the mid 1600s. Regretably whether or not your Scottish Livingston ancestors have an Irish connection I cant say for certain.


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society

[Edward J Livingston]

Kyle, John & Donald,

My sincere thanks for your responses.

As far as the issue of the parent name of William being incorrect, the dates in the records just didn't match up. I kept digging and eventually came across a book which detailed the history of Highland Silversmiths. Thanks to a brief time spent in Elgin, William fell into this category and a short biography was included. The authors research seems to stand up very well and details a 1714 apprenticeship record that specifies William's father as being John and coming from County Down.

The Grizell that John mentions is indeed the daughter of William and the sibling of Edward my 3rd Great Grandfather. The book details the origin of some the christian names of the ten children of William. However, among the other children, occur the names Henry, Janet and Robert appear to come up along side Grizzell in some County Down records, but again none of the dates seem to match up and there is no mention of John.

Again, my thanks for all of your contributions and look forward to posting further updates.

[jmlivingstone]

Ed,

You quite possibly have this information already, if you Google, Edward Livingstone, Jeweller in Dundee, there is a large amount of information available on him.

It appears Edward must have been top class at his trade, as there are still many items manufactured by him up for sale today, eg. E-Bay has a silver toddy ladle going for around 600 UK pounds, another site has a small tea caddy spoon for around 500 UK pounds.

There is also an article concerning more items of Edwards, which are, or were, on show in a Dundee museum, unfortunately, I cannot find this article again.

At his business address, 6, High Street, Dundee, also resident, are William Livingstone, occ. writer, & Miss Livingstone, occ. dressmaker, there is also a James Livingstone, grocer, at Westport, Dundee, no indication if he is related.

Edwards death is listed as 15 Jan. 1832, at Fisherrow at age 77 years,

John

[Edward J Livingston]

Hi John,

Thanks for your post above. I have managed to put together quite a comprehensive tree dating from Williams generation to present. I hope to ultimately post this once when I have added some earlier generations. When I came across the info you refer to, a brief search of the family silver sadly failed to yield any of his hallmarks! According to Williams short biography, it appears that Edward was named after a fellow silversmith. This has now carried down six generations of the family.

Thanks again, Ed