Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:16 am

Hi Stephen,

In regards to your questions regarding the DNA test, I would advise that you go with the familytreedna y chromosome 67 marker test and would be more than happy to sponsor that test as you may well be one of the last of your Morvern Livingston family line that is interested in our Project and more significantly quite likely descended from Donald Livingstone's brother Ewen (Hugh) Livingstone of Savary Morvern. Will the test sort help to identify the father of Hugh Livingston husband of Effy Campbell who settled with her children including your ancestor John Livingston in Lawrence County, Ohio? Probably not unfortunately but what it will do is to better tell us how your likely old Savary Livingstone line likely connected to the famous Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary family and his father John Livingstone is connected with the three other Livingstons of Morvern Livingston ancestry in Clan Maclea Livingstone Society DNA project. I can have Kyle Maclea one of our DNA Project coordinators and our former Clan Commissioner contact you, get your address and in a few weeks I can have a familytreedna kit sent to your home address. I think the test will confirm your ancestral connection with the Morvern Livingstons as a family group in that part of Western Argyll and I think bring us closer to linking all these Livingstons of Morvern ancestral origin to perhaps a common Savary, Morvern ancestor possibly from the year 1600. More on that tomorrow.

I think it is quite likely that the Scioto County Livingstons and the Lawrence County Livingston share a common Savary Morvern Livingstone ancestry though in retrospect I think I jumped the gun a bit and having made a strong case in favour Effy Campbell's husband the Hugh Livingston born in the early 1800's being the Duncan Livingston and Catharine Cameron. I do think the letter you have suggests that Ann Livingston of Lawrence County family was a cousin of some sort of Duncan Livingston and probably like Duncan the lawyer and family historian ancestrally connected to the famous Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 through his brother Hugh like Duncan. We can't test anyone in Duncan's family line because he never married and he was an only child. His father got his two brothers from Morvern to join him in Ohio but they did not marry and have a family either. So regrettably we can't test to compare modern day two modern day descendants of the the two families. So you are basically our last hope. It is quite likely that my Livingston cousin a descendant of my Livingston ancestor Miles Livingston is also connected to the Savary, family but I won't know that until someone with probable links to the Savary Morvern Livingstones is tested and his results compared with my Livingston cousin. So far my Livingston cousin of 67 genetic markers tested was only 3 marker different out of 67 markers tested with one Movern Livingston and with the most recent one even closer related with a genetic difference of only one marker out of a total 67 markers tested so I assume that the test results are pointing to a strong Morvern Livingston family connection to other Morvern Livingston. These very positive test results with the y chromosome 67 marker test with the three Morvern Livingstons tested so far I think is encouraging, but unfortunately as you can imagine it is difficult to find Livingstons of Morvern Livingston ancestry. I don't think it necessary for your brother to be tested as you both would share virtually the same Y chromosome test results.

I really appreciate Kristen's efforts to locate you, another descendant of Hugh Livingston and Effy Campbell. I know how much work she has put into her Hugh Livingston and Effy Campbell research so I think we should take our time and consider all the Hugh Livingston scenarios rather than be too hasty in concluding who Hugh Levingston's parents were or weren't. I would feel a whole lot better if you and Kristen in the end would make any decisions regarding who your ancestors are and not me. I am more than happy to contribute however i can, but I want you both to be happy with the information coming from the forum regarding your ancestor Hugh Livingston husband of Effy Campbell of Lawrence County, Ohio.

Many of the birth records for Morvern Parish are missing and incomplete which does not help to give us an accurate picture of these early 19th century Morvern Livingston families and the ones before 1803 well I really don't know what happened to them. Neighbouring Lismore and Appin Parish records go as far back as late 1750's. If only we were so lucky with the Morvern records it would perhaps make all of this a lot easier.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby johnbuchan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:47 am

Thank you, Donald. It is a shame that Duncan had and has no descendants, and I can appreciate that a DNA test is not likely to reveal the father of Hugh, but I nevertheless certainly do want to contribute to the DNA database. I will wait to hear from Kyle Maclea.
Regards,
Stephen
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:02 am

Hi Stephen and Kristen,

Here is a photo of old Livingston 18th century table tomb of Donald Livingstone's parent's John Livingston and Ann McInnes likely your ancestor and Kristens and possibly mine as well. The parents were born around 1700 AD or thereabouts. This photo included in our Clan Society gallery was taken a while back by the late Donald McInnes of Cumbernald, Scotland of the Clan McInnes Society who I in contact with for time to time and who regularly visited Kiel Cemetery and this gravesite. Donald McInnes told me his family was from Drimmin, Morvern and he felt a strong connection to both Clan McInnes and the Livingstons in Morvern because of these families being so closely related through marriage over the centuries. He was also very much interested in the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary and his rescuing of the Appin Banner at the Battle of Culloden in April of 1746 and was very well informed about that.

http://www.clanlivingstone.info/copperm ... m=14&pos=5


I have a close up photo of this 18th century Morvern Livingston table tomb around somewhere

The inscription on the stone
Here lyes the corpse of John Livingston who dyed the year 1757 aged 57 years
This tomb is intended also for the remains of Anna Mcinnes his spouse
The Stone was erected by Donald Livingston their son 1760

No doubt your Morvern Livingston ancestors knew all about their relative Donald Livingston and visited the site of this tomb in their lifetime. For that matter your ancestor were likely family and spent many a day with old Donald who had a mill at Savary and later ran an Inn there with his wife Jean Stewart.

At the front end of this 18th century table tomb there is an armorial created for his Maclea Livingstone family and the stone is beautifully carved.
I am puzzled how Donald was able to afford the cost of this tomb. He has no original grave marker as his children likely could not afford one and it is assumed he and his wife Jane or Jean Stewart are buried beside Donald's parents and none of his children have any gravestones at all or at least none surviving in Keil Cemetery. In the 1980's a metal memorial was placed beside the Table tomb honouring the memory of this famous Morvern Livingston. You can see it in the photo.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby johnbuchan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:00 am

Donald - Thank you for the photos and information!
Stephen
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Maverick1975 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:00 am

Donald,

Like Stephen has said, thank you so much for all of the information, the hard work and the link the pictures. I have a deadline at work so I am reading but not able to really process and respond right now. But i will. So glad Stephen is in on this project :)

Kristen
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Kyle MacLea » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:30 pm

Message sent to you, Stephen, regarding the DNA project. Watch your inbox!

Kyle
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:51 pm

Hi Kristen and Stephen,

Sorry the late Donald McInnes had sent me about 10 years ago the exact inscription on the Donald Livingstone's parent's highland table tomb. The father John Livingston did not die in 1700. I think year of death, Donald McInnes stated was 1757 and the age 57 so I mean't John was born abt. 1700. It is also inscribed on the tomb that the son Donald Livingston erected the table tomb in the year 1760. It is amazing that the inscriptions and carvings are in as good condition as they are. I still have the messages and information on Donald Livingstone that Donald sent me back then but I am not certain at the moment where that info is. From my memory I seem to recall the year of death inscribed on the stone was 1757, but it is hard to read compared to the rest of the stone. As I said I do have a close up photo of the stone taken by another chap who lives in Scotland and photographed Keil Cemetery and in particular the remaining Livingstone grave stones he could find.


regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:10 pm

Hi Kyle,

Good Morning. Thanks for passing on the message. If you have a chance take a look on the preceding forum page, where Kristen has included a letter that was in Stephen's family as a file attachment that Scioto County Ohio lawyer and 19th century Morvern Livingston family historian wrote to Ann Livingston,a great-great Aunt of Stephens and Kristens of the neighbouring Lawrence County, Ohio Livingston family in 1899 from Lochaline, Morvern when he was visiting there. The exciting thing is that you may recall that I did research and the "Aunt Betty Livingston he visited and mentions in his letter to his cousin Ann in the neighbouring County of Walker County, Ohio. When I did the article on the Livingstone gravestones in old Kiel Cemetery in Morvern I included the photo of Betty Livingston and her husband Donald Livingston's granite monument. Her father Miles McInnises grave stone is also standing but I did not include that in that article. Myles McInnes originally from Savary, Morvern and my ancestor Miles Livingston were both born in the 1770's and may have been cousins I suspect, but difficult to prove. Certainly my ancestors first name does suggest he may have been of one of the many Livingston families that were connected through marriage with Clan McInnes who for some reason liked the name Myles. I think there a famous McInnes with the name Mile or Myles I read somewhere. A while back Baron Livingstone pointed out that Miles or Myles is connected to the gaelic name Maelmoire or tonsured servant of Mary. There was also a Myles Livingston baptized in 1775 on the neighbouring Isle of Lismore and an earlier Myles Livingston residing there according to the baptism records. Also another Miles Livingston residing at Killundine, Morvern in the early 1800's so there Myles or Miles Livngstons in the Morvern and neighbouring Lismore Island in the late 1700's and early 1800's.

We are still trying to grapple with who precisely the parents of Effy Livingston's husband Hugh Livingston who died a few years before 1851 when his widow Effy Campbell and all of her children left Morvern in the year 1851 and settled in Lawrence County, Ohio as Kristen pointed out to me the County beside Scioto County, Ohio where lawyer and historian Duncan Livingston was born around 1850 and where Duncan's father Angus Lvingston and mother Margaret Livingston settled in the 1840's. Interestingly looking at the Scottish census info I have found that these families also lived in close proximity to one another in Morvern as did the Aunt Betty, Lawyer Duncan Livingston mentions to Ann Livingston of Lawrence County who were are thinking seems to be a Livingston cousin. We don't unfortunately have all of the pieces in this Livingston family puzzle but letter Stephen shared with Kristen has been passed down over the years in Stephen's family from generation to the next generation and is I think suggesting these families not only knew each other in MOrvern but could be related . It is always interesting when an old letter like this manages to survive. I appreciate Stephen sharing this family heirloom with us.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:11 pm

Hi Kristen and Stephen,

See my latest new post entitled "Livingstons at Achabegg, Morvern. I think you may find it of interest.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Newcomer and descendant of Archibald Livingston

Postby Kyle MacLea » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:52 pm

Wow, that old letter is a TREASURE!

Kyle=
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New Hampshire, USA
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