Donald Livingstone

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wdlivingstone
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by wdlivingstone »

Donald,

More excellent information. Thanks.

Regarding the grave sites, Donald is listed as being 103 years old when he died. And Effie was 84. Given she was born in 1823 (Canadian Census information), she would have died in 1906.

I found information in a pamphlet from the York Farmers Colonization Company, which founded York in 1882. As you recall, Donald traveled alone to Canada in 1878. His family joined him in 1881. Donald Livingstone is listed in the pamphlet as a settler at the York Colony, which lists his previous address as "Oak Lake, Manitoba." Likely, Donald was living here when his wife and family joined him and then they moved to York in 1882, soon after York was founded. There is a street in York named "Livingstone." I'm in contact with an historian in York to find out what information on the Livingstones might be available in history books in York.

Best regards,

Bill
wdlivingstone
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by wdlivingstone »

Donald,

A correction to my previous post. Donald's first wife was born in 1823 according to Canadian Census records. Euphemia McDougall was born about 1828, again based on Canadian Census record. This means Effie would have died in 1912.

In regard to a death certificate for Donald, are you gathering any information from the Ancestry.com? If not, I'm going to see what it may have available.

Best regards,

Bill
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

The first wife Euphemia McAlpine died in Aug. 26, 1866 in Croggan Village back in Kinlochspelvie, Mull so she won't be in the Canadian census records or Canadian records. I did not notice any death info for Donald and his second wife Effy (Euphemia McDougall) on ancestry.com but perhaps I missed it. It would be probably be better just to acquire a copy of the original info from the Saskatchewan gov through their Saskatchewan e-heatlh link I earlier posted as secondary sources like ancestry.com when from submitted by family researchers may not be guaranteed to be accurate. Anyways I will check and see if any family researchers have posted info. Some of the family trees submitted to ancestry.com sometimes have inaccurate informaiton in them I find, so I use that source only as a last resort and when possible compare that info with some original source documents. Of course even census records can have some mistakes but usually they are helpful and give one vital information on location of ancestors and an other important information. I will see if there is any info on Donald Livington and his second wife Euphemia McDougall as to their death date. As mentioned in the earlier posting I see them in the 1891 and 1901 Canadian Census in Assinaboia East in the part of then Territories in Western Canadan which became Saskatchewan. One of their sons Duncan was living in 1901 according to the 1901 and 1906 census in Swan River Manitoba which probably explains why I am finding information that Donald and Effie were buried at Beechwood Cemetery in Swan River Manitoba with son Duncan and his wife Bertha of Swan River, Manitoba.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,
If you are certain he died in Yorkton, Saskatchewan then you can order the death record online from e-healh Saskatchewan. If Donald died at Swan Lake, Manitoba then you would have to get a copy from the Manitoba Government or archives.
Some of the later Canadian records are not available from Ancestry.com. They have access to the census records when available from 1842 to the Canadian Census of 1921, but wont' likely have access to Saskatchewan or Manitoba death records from the 1920's. Least I am not aware that they would have access to the original death records from Saskatchewan and Manitoba from the 1920's. You would have to order them. And I don't see that anyone has a copy of it or Euphemia McDougalls. The easiest thing to do is get a copy of Donald and Euphemia's death record from the Saskatchewan E health death record link that I posted in my oppinion. I don't imagine the government of Saskatchewan charges much for that. I don't really know what cost of it is from Saskatchewan e-health. It is all done online by e-health now so I should think that is very convenient. In some places you have to travel a distance to an Archives and go through microfilm indexes and find the info to find the reel with the death record and make a copy yourself. This actually makes all a whole lot easier if you can order family records on-line.

I got in touch with a person who is actually involved in transcribing some 4000 plus gravestones incriptions at the Birchwood Cemetery in Swan River Manitoba where your ancestor Donald and his wife Euphemia McDougall according to "findagrave" are buried near their son Duncan Livingston 1869-1939 and his wife Bertha. Duncan was his youngest son and from his second marriage to Euphemia McDougall. Your ancestor Alexander born in 1865 was a son of Donald and his first wife Euphemia McDOugall who as I mentioned in one of my earlier posted died in 1866 in Croggan, Kinlochspelvie, Mull. He then married Euphemis McDougall in 1868. All that info in some of my previous messages. I will let you know if this Beechwood Cemtery transcriber can tell me what is actually on Donald and Euphemia's gravestone or if the reason there is not birth or death info is because the gravestone is damaged or worn. Get back to you later on that hopefully.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

This is the last Sakatchewan census of 1916 in which your ancestor Donald Livingston is censused. This should help to clarify things somewhat regarding Donald's actual birth in the later 1820's as indicated in the Scottish records.

Census of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta 1916
John Livingston b. 1863 son of Donald Livingston and first wife Euphemia McAlpin (Came to Canada in 1881)
Residence at Mackenzie Saskatchewan Township 25 and Ranges 3 and 4 W2M including Town of Yorkton

Donald is living with his son in the Yorkton, Saskatchewan area son John born May 17 1863 in Drimnatyne, Kilochspelvie, Mull. In this census JOhn's age given is 52 which matches a birth of 1864 or 1863

John Livingstone age 52 b. abt. 1864 Scotland (Donald's son John with first wife Euphemia McAlpine (Alex Livingston's mother) JOhn was actually born in 1863
Marguerite Livingstone age 45 b. abt. 1871 Ontario (John's wife)
Donald Livingstone age 90 born abt. 1826 Scotland (This is first apparent indication in the Canadian records that your ancestor was actually born in the later 1820's 1828 to be more accurate with his scottish birth record. Notice the census taker records old Donald at the age of 90 in the year 1916 which would make his birth date 1826 more in line with his birth date in Scotland of 1828.

This backs the notion that he died sometime after 1916 probably 1921 as you said and that his second wife Euphemia McDougall died before 1916 Census in 1914 was you stated. Also note that the census taker gave an approximate age of 90. He likely was 92 which would make his birth 1828 as indicated in his birth record. This information is close to accurate to me with the info from Scotland and this was the last census done with old Donald in it before he died. He is not alive when in the 1921 the census for that year the next Canadian Census was conducted. He could have died in 1921 however before the census took place.

Hope this helps. Interesting that he was living for a time with his son John who like your ancestor Alex as son of first wife Euphemia McAlpine. Duncan who Donald is buried with apparently in Swan River, Manitoba would Alex's half brother born in 1869 to Euphemia McDougall. What a complex family you have.

I have not seen the death record but it may be that old Donald died in Yorkton Saskatchewan and then was buried with son Duncan because his second wife Euphemie McDougall was buried in Swan River, Manitoba with her son Duncan b. 1869 her first born after she married widower Donald Livington in 1868. Not sure but if you get a copy of the Donald's death record it will tell you whether he died in Saskatchewan or nearby in Manitoba. He definitely was buried in Swan Lake Manitoba in Birchwood Cemetery. I am awaiting hopefully hearing back from an expert on that cemetery.

THe death record of Donald Livingston will probably tell you where he was living at the time of death Saskatchewan or Manitoba. It is interesting that he ended up being buried in Manitoba at Swan Lake but that may have been because his second wife Euphemia McDougall was buried there some years earlier which we know is the case.

regards,

Donald
wdlivingstone
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by wdlivingstone »

Donald,

I thought you might be interested in a short overview of Donald Livingstone, contained in the book, "The Ox-Trails to Highways," by HS Swallow (published in 1955). The information was located by a heritage researcher in Yorkton.
The book has a chapter called "The Merchants of Yorkton," which talks about Donald Livingstone, also known as "old man Livingstone."

“Old man Livingstone first filed on a homestead on Sec. 2-27-3, six miles north of Yorkton, proper. He had four sons, Neil, Duncan, Jack and Sandy, and one daughter Jennie, all of whom contributed to the build-up of the city and district. After 1991 they moved from York Colony, and settled in a store situated where the Balmoral Hotel stands today. From this store they supplied a great many ranchers with all that they needed in the way of household goods, and the ranchers were allowed to run a yearly account. In the fall of the year, Old man Livingstone would drive out to the ranches, particularly those of his customers, and would pick out the cattle which he wished to market for them. These he would ship to Winnipeg, and after making a sale, would pay the rancher any surplus, more than his account, or if the stock did not quite pay the account, he would allow them to carry it on for another year. He was a great judge of cattle and as he went through the ranches, if he did not think the stock were in a condition to make a profit for the rancher, he would not take the cattle but would still allow full credit to trade. In this way he exceeded a great deal of directive ability to build up, not only his own business but theirs also. Often he would bring a better class bull, back from Winnipeg, and take it out to certain ranches to improve the quality of the stock. Though the four boys worked in perfect harmony with their father, he always held the directing hand over the business. He was a remarkable man. Bob Rousay tells me that he remembers him, stopping at his place while he was enroute to Regina, he and two men on horseback, driving ten head of cattle all the way to the Capital city. When near his 98 birthday he made a pleasure trip to Scotland and back. He rode one of the best cow ponies that Yorkton ever had, called Sam Slick. This Mr. Livingstone did when he over ninety years of age. Even then he was not known to wear glasses.”

Best regards,

Bill
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

That is great that someone wrote an account of your ancestor. His sons were as mentioned with Euphemia McAlpine Neil Livingston b.1861, John (Jack) b. 1863 and Alexander (Sandy) b. 1865. Euphemia McAlpine died in Croggan Village, Kilochspelvie in 1866 and then in 1868 he married Euphemia McDougall and there was another DUncan born in 1869 who did not live in Saskatchewan he lived as mentioned in Swan River, Manitoba and according to findagrave your Donald Livingston and his wife Euphemia McDougall in the Birchwood Cemetery in Swan River, Manitoba. As mentioned I have left a message with a gentleman who is in the process of transcribing the information on the cemetery stones there and hopefully he check that stone out and tell me why no other information was extracted from it other than the name Donald Livingston and Euphemia McDougall.

As I understand it Alexander Livingston came to Canada about 1878 with his sons Neil b. 1861, John b. 1863 and Alexander b. 1865 sons of first wife Euphemia McAlpine. THe 1881 Census does show that his second wife Euphemia Livingston is living with the youngest children Duncan b. 1869 and Jane b. 1875 at Oban, Argyll and left later in 1881 for Canada.

THe 1891 Canadian Census is the first census that your Livingston kin appear in Canada.
Assinniboia East (Saskatchewan)
In 1891 your ancestor Donald Livingston is living with his second wife Euphemia Livingston in Assiniboia East Broadview District with son John (Jack), Alexander and daughter Jane. Also in another residence recorded in the 1891 Census in Assiniboia East Broadview District is the eldest son Neil Livingston and wife Cecilia and their infant daughter Euphemia (Effie) Neil and his wife Cecilia had four children, Euphemia, Maggie, Mary and Robert. THey appear in the 1891,1901, 1906 and 1911 \Census. Neil Livingston resided in Mackenzie District Town of Yorkton at the time of his death in 1911. I have death date for Neil of 20 December 1911. I think he died in the Yorkton are but I need to confirm that eventually. Neil as mentioned was the eldest son of old Donald. So Neil b. 1861 and brother John (Jack LIvingston) b. 1863 would have been your ancestor Alex's older brothers who shared with the same mother the late Euphemia McAlpine who as I mentioned has a Scottish death entry from 1866 which states she died back in Croggan village in Kinlochspelvie Parish Mull. Before 1842 when Kinlochspelvie Parish became a separate parish your Livingston family and kins records would be found in the Torosay and Kinlochspelvie Parish records. It is bit confusing but in some records because of this it states your earliest Livingsons were living in Torosay sometimes but mostly in Kinlochspelvie. Most of the records however refer to Drumnatyne and neighbouring Croggan where your Livingstons lived as in Kinlochspelvie so I am going with that and infact after 1842 that is the correct name for the parish where Drumnatyne and Croggan Village both places where Donald lived in his lifetime before in 1878 settling in what became Western territories of Canada in what later became known as the Canadian province of Saskatchewan.

Alexander had then two older brothers Neil b. 1861 and John (Jack) b. 1863 who lived in Saskatchewan like him in Drimntyne, Kinlochspelvie who were brothers all sons of Euphemia McAlpine, Donalds first wife and one younger brother Duncan b. 1869 a half brother who lived in 1901 at Swan River, Manitoba the son of Donald's second wife Euphemia McDougall, also a half sister Jane (Janet) also a daughter of his step mom Euphemia McDougall. Interestingly checking out "findagrave" i discovered that your ancestor old Donald Livingston and his second wife Euphemia McDougall are buried with the second wife's son Duncan and his wife Bertha in Birchwood Cemetery in Duncan's hometown of Swan River, Manitoba. The likely reason why old Donald was buried in Swan River Manitoba wouild likely have been because his second wife whose death apparently preceded him by several years was buried in Swan River, Manitoba where her only son Duncan was living at the time of her death. The other three sons of her husband Donald who lived in Saskatchewan of course were not her sons but those of Donald's first wife Euphemia McAlpine. You can imagine just how confusing all this will be for future family historians who dont have access to all these records that have been located. All of the Euphemias were confusing enough for me and I have researched more livingston families over the last 10 yrs than I can count.

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

Donald's son John (Jack) Livingstone lived to be an old man like his father. Just found his 1954 death record. John died June 14, 1954 North Vancouver, British Columbia wife Margaret McLeod Parents listed Donald Livingstone and Euphemia McAlpine Age given at time of death 93 and birth date May 7, 1861 Oban, Scotland are incorrect the correct birth date is May 17, 1863 at Drimnatyne, Kinlochspelvie Parish, Mull, Argyll, Scotland. So off by a couple of years in this record. Donald had a four sons who came to Canada so doubt you have many cousins out there whom you have never met in Canada.

regards,

Donald
wdlivingstone
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by wdlivingstone »

Donald,

Unfortunately, Canada restricts access to a census for 92 years! Hard to trace down someone who is living.

Thanks again for your continuing interest in finding details about Donald Livingstone and his family.

Best regards,

Bill
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,
Yes the 1921 Census is the latest census to be released to archives and the general public in Canada over privacy issues. It will sometime before the 1931 Canadian census is released.
Well there is a chance they will see the info here on this forum regarding your Livingston family line and contact the forum in the future. I am hoping to hear back from the Birchwood Cemetery tombstone transcriber about what condition the Donald Livingston and Euphemia McDougall is in and what it says on it.

regards,

Donald
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