John Livingston/e Merchant St.Johns Newfoundland

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John Livingston/e Merchant St.Johns Newfoundland

Postby Brucew946 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:15 pm

My family oral history claims that John Livingston was descended from the Livingstones of Callendar. This is supported by information in a monograph on his descendant Benjamin Morris in The Canadian Biographical Dictionary of 1881 . However , the author of a thesis on the Dissenting Church in St.Johns [ http://www.mun.ca/rels/cong/texts/journ2_new.html] states that John was from Clogher in County Tyrone Ireland, though I cannot determine on what this statement was based . From the 1794 census John appears to have arrived in Newfoundland about 1764 . He probably died about 1796. . According to a post on this website in 2008 John married twice; Katherine King May 8th, 1764 and Abigail Dougherty March 4th,1781. I note though that he was a bachelor at the time of the 1781 marriage not a widower.[ So were there 2 John Livingstons?]. Our family claims its descent through his daughter from the latter marriage, Mary, who martried a William Morris.
Has anyone encountered this John Livingston in their research, or could anyone advise me where to seek details of his arrival/origin, please?
Bruce
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Re: John Livingston/e Merchant St.Johns Newfoundland

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:41 pm

Hi Bruce,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. I think you may be the first Livingston/e with early roots in Newfoundland to visit us with inquiries regarding their Livingston/e ancestors, so unfortunately I don't have any knowledge of your Livingston family in the early Newfoundland of the 18th and 19th century. There is a John Livingston a landowner that is recorded in the early 1794-1795 Census of St. John's, but it really does not provide anything in the way of detailed information apparently.

I was not able locate any genealogies or a family trees for an 18th century settler John Livingston of Newfoundland, but by making your inquiry on this website there is always a chance other Livingstons with roots in Newfoundland who may be related to your ancestor, may visit this site and can provide some helpful information.

In the 1700's prior to the America Revolution there was a significant number of Presbyterian desenters from what is today Northern Ireland who settled in the then British Colonies primarily America and likely Newfoundland. The Dissenting or Congregation Church in St. John's has an interesting history and although not part of the Presbyterian church shared similar religious views and eventually merged with the Presbyterian Church.

Someone at the Newfoundland Historical Society might now more about details about this John Livingston you have mentioned and Scotch Irish Presbyterian settlement in the mid 1700's including those who were affiliated with the Dissenting or Congregational Church in St. Johns where the John Livingston you mentioned married Abigail Dougherty in 1781 according to their Church records. I assume they may have early members of John Jone's congregation at that church in St. Johns. Don't know about the first John Livingston but there could have been two. The congregation years later officially joined the Presbyterian church in 1938. The Historical Society may also have on file or know where you could find other Newfoundland Livingston genealogies that might connect with your own Livingston family. Here is an interesting article on the history of the Church if you are interested:
http://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/soci ... ndland.php
I am not certain if the 18th century baptism records for this church survived. One place I see an index Congregational Church Baptisms 1816-1877, so obvious John Livingston's children's baptisms won't likely be in that collection. Oddly though the same source states Congregational Church marriages 1802-1892 but there is a marriage record for John and Abigail's 1781 marriage so there must be earlier marriage records if not baptism records. But you can probably sort this out.

It might be some help if you could give us the name for example of your Grandfather/Grandmother Livingston, Great-Grandfather-Great-Grandmother Livingston, GG. Grandfather Livingston/GG. Grandmother etc as far back as you have gone in your family research so as the Clan Society and any other Livingstons who might be related to you can easily and quickly see your ancestral line. From what you have told me you believe that your family is descended from John Livingston and Abigail Dougherty's daughter Mary who you understand was married to a William Morris.
We don't get as many visitors as we used to, but our website is known by those who are really interested in Livingston genealogy and history and as I mentioned some LIvingstons with Newfoundland roots such as yours may visit this site in the future hopefully.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Re: John Livingston/e Merchant St.Johns Newfoundland

Postby Brucew946 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:36 am

Hi Donald
Thank you for your prompt and comprehensive reply. I will follow up the leads you have given me.
In the meantime, here are my Livingston& Morris ancestors
John Livingston merchant & landholder of St. Johns m. Abigail Dougherty [Doughurty] St Johns Anglican Cathedral . This & his earlier marriage are available in various sites on the web in a "Return of Marriages for the Anglican Parish of the Cathedral of St Johns". The extract is dated 1971. They produce 3 daughters Mary b. 1786, Elizabeth Sarah b 1778 and Sidney Spears b 1789-90. The girls baptism are document in a closed post 22/12/2008 on this site by a Roberta Ann Livingston.[ I cannot locate the thread].
Sidney Spear/s married Peter Weston Carter.
Mary married Captain William Morris of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment [ born Waterford, Ireland], 7 Jan 1806, again in the Cathedral.
William & Mary produced at least 7 children, including William b ca. 1808 Quebec, Benjamin Thomas b 1819 Waterford ,who farmed at Sherbrooke, Livingstone Edward b 1823 Waterford, and Isabella Abigail who married William Hoste Webb.
William found employment in Ceylon where he married Mary Ann Austin and produced Mary Livingston Morris , my Great grandmother in 1836. Mary L. married 1st Frederick W. Gisborne in Ceylon and after his death My G/grandfather Dr George Frederick Davis in Reading England 1865. They subsequently migrated to Tasmania [ Australia], where she died in 1914..
Some 50 years ago my grandmother Elsie Davis nee Priestley gave me a hand written document showing very crudely Mary Livingston's descent from the Livingstones of Callendar. Dear old grandmother knew her an ancestry in Canada and India back to the 1790s [ since confirmed] so I am inclined to believe this part of her story too.
Regards
Bruce
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Re: John Livingston/e Merchant St.Johns Newfoundland

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:44 pm

Hi Bruce,

I would you best chance of finding anything more about John Livingston's early years in Newfoundland would be to contact and the people at the Newfoundland Historical Society. They would be I would imagine familiar with early settlers of St.John's and John Livingston being a landowner according to the 1794-95 St. John's NFLD Census who seems to have had more than property in St. John's and what looks like tenants beside his name, may have been someone of significance in his community.

https://www.fhsnl.ca

1794-1795 St. John's Census
http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1794/sjc-1794-idx.shtml

In the census a John Livingston occupier and land owner mentioned in St. John's in the 5th Division (Kings Beach to the Garrison) and mentioned 3 times in the Fourth Division (Engine House to Kings Beach) as being as landowner with 3 tenants apparently recorded as the occupiers of 3 of his properties each apparently beside the other. I think perhaps it may be the same landowner John Livingston, but can't be 100 certain.
In any event your John Livingston is listed in the 1794-1795 Census St. John's Division 5 as you have already noticed
John Livingston is listed as both the owner and occupier and most helpful as you mentioned it states that he had been residing in Newfoundland for 30 years.

I think there is good chance as someone has suggested as you mentioned that John Livingston was born in Ireland as there were some Livingston families living in Northern Counties of Ireland who originated from lowland Scottish families that settled there in the 1600's. A number of these Scotch Irish Livingston families as they are called in America later in the first half of the 1700's prior to the revolution settled in Colonial NY, Pennsylvania and North Carolina. Unfortunately finding details on your John Livingston's origin and a birth record would likely be difficult even if you knew where likely in Ireland he was born, I would think.

Regarding your Livingston ancestors being connected to the aristocratic Calendar Livingstons who lived in lowland Scotland, I think there were some Livingstons residing in one of the Counties in the North of Ireland with Lowland Scotland root that I think were said to be descended from a descendant of the Callender Livingston family, who settled there in the 1600's but I don't know much about them.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: John Livingston/e Merchant St.Johns Newfoundland

Postby Brucew946 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:19 am

Thank you again, Donald,
I have already subscribed to the Newfoundland and Grand Banks site and have sent an preliminary email to the Historical Society. I have not as yet found anything on the former that helps establish John Livingston's origin. Perhaps the Historical Society will provide a lead. Finding people in Ireland is a challenge at the best and often just impossible as a result of the 1922 fire. However, it was primarily Church of Ireland records that were lost ; Presbyterian records were not stored in the Records Office and may have survived. There is hope yet
Regards
Bruce
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Re: John Livingston/e Merchant St.Johns Newfoundland

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:01 am

Hi Bruce,

I was fortunate that those of my ancestors who lived in County Antrim left Ireland in the 1830's and 1840's and the family in Canada passed on some info where the family lived in County Antrim so my ancestors and their kin could found in the local graveyard and some info was also found in the 19th century tithe records, given the 19th century Census records were lost in the fire you mentioned. More difficult finding info in the 18th century.



regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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