Randomly Acquired Information

[jmlivingstone]

Donald,

Just got an e-mail from www.findmypast.co.uk, they expect to have Chelsea Pensioner records for 1760 - 1854 published next month, with any luck, we should be able to find info on the illusive Angus Livingstones military service, or do you think that's too much to hope for?
I suppose we can but hope,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

I knew that they had been copying them but werent completed last time I checked. I look forward to when Livingston info is available. I have before this time seen some info before hand but none for Angus Livingston. Hopefully he can be located in those pension records now that they are soon to be finished copying.

regards,

Donald

[Jewel]

Hello to all,

I spent some time going through my files and came across a couple of records that I thought might be of interest to someone. I can't say for sure where I got these records but I think they possible came from Scotlands People if I'm not mistaken. They are Sea records which give name, birth date and birth place . The handwriting is difficult to read but will do my best.

John Livingstone: birth July 22,1828, Looks like place is Greenock, Scotland?

5ft. 8 in. Brown hair Grey eyes fair complexion, no wounds trade Sea.

Ship: Vanguard(?) C.G. Jan.1,1873-Oct.13,1873= promoted Coast Guard
" Oct.14,1873-July31,1874=promoted " "
" Aug.1,1874-Sept.30,1875= ship lost " "
Iron Duke Oct. 1,1875-March 31,1877=paid off " "
" April 1, 1877-July,16,1977 =transferred " "
Topaze July 17,1877-July1, 1878= " " "
Belleisle July2, 1878-Aug.31,1885=shore " "
pensioned: Oct. 8, 1885


Donald Livingstone: born October 28,1849, Tobermorey,Argyll
Occupation Valet or Galet? 5ft. 2in. Lt. Brown hair Blue eyes.

Ship Galatea: April 2-Sept.30. Shore,requested a discharge.

Jewel

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jewel,

Possible Navy records of some sort I suspect. The Chelsea Pension Records includes some Livingstons and Livingstones that served in the Army. Some of those records have already been released for online access but so far only a few Livingston born before 1800 who would have served during the Napoleonic Wars which is what a number of people had made inquiries about. There is one list that wont be released online till 2011. I have seen at one point a large number of Livingstons from the Napoleonic War period listed elsewhere and filed it away somewhere years ago. In any event is was from an index and probably incomplete. I am hoping a complete list of Livingstons/Livingstones that served during the Napoleonic War in the British Army can be eventually be put together. As John Livingston's ancestor ANgus Livingston of Jura, Scotland circa 1841 Scottish census was an Army pensioner from the Napoleonic War we are hoping that that some information will eventually surface.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Donald,

I've more or less given up on the chances of us getting info on Angus, born Mull around 1775, last heard of Jura 1841.
I've now contacted www.scotsfamily.com, to see if they can come up with anything new.
The latest military records on Ancestry, have 2 Livingstones, one of which died around 1955 in Glasgow, I've saved them if anyone is interested,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

THe Chelsea Records are not complete as yet online and there are more in 2011 if I understand correctly. A few years ago I noticed an index of enlisted men that served in British Army during the Napoleonic War period and there were a number of Livingstons of highland origin included but I have since misplaced that info. I asssumed this was extracted from the Chelsea Pension records but there many more Livingstons from that period than I am seeing on that online list so who knows. Wish I knew someone who had the time to go through the military records in the British Archives.

I dont know of any other sources where you could find info on Angus Livingston of Jura. You are quite right to presume that Angus likely came from elsewhere than Jura and your test results suggest that your ancestor whether he was Angus or not was originally from Mull. Interestingly some Livingstons from Morvern connected to my Livingston family were working for a time at Jura but a few years later left to join other Livingston relatives in Canada. I would think it highly probable that your Angus Livingston at Jura was born at Mull or some neighbouring area in Western Argyll.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Donald,

My fathers sister Barbara, married a Charlie McLean from Mull, he was a police constable in Greenock, on holiday/honeymoon, they apparently met Livingstone relatives who still lived on Mull in the 1920's.

Unfortunately, in the days when I heard this, I was not interested.

I'll be back home in Greenock, in about three or four weeks, I've got one cousin, daughter of Barbara & Charlie who may be able to provide some info on my Livingstones in Mull etc.

Another cousin apparently has photos of my g/parents or g/g/parents, they were resident on Islay at the time, if I can get copies, I'll get them on here, possibly someone will see a family likeness,

John

[Kyle MacLea]

Keep at it, John. It's frustrating, but I feel as Donald says that the DNA is leading you in the right direction. Even if you may not be able to say for sure the exact origins, I feel you have 100% found the right group of Livingston/es. This Western Argyll group is clearly very old in that region, and you should feel confident of a kinship with that group and in that area.

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John and Kyle,

The tricky thing about all this that I from time to time remind researchers of their highland Livingstone ancestors is that these Livingstons whose family roots are in Western Argyll may have migrated from village to village, island to island from time to time so there is no guarantee if that if you find a record or family history stating that your great-great grandfather left Islay or Jura for the New World for example that they were born at Islay or Jura. This of course makes things more complicated when we are trying to group highland livingstons and determine what specific area in Western Argyll they came from. When all else fails the DNA testing will at least help to suggest which Livingstons are likely to be originally from the same part of Argyll and of the same family line of those being tested. My great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston b. abt. 1775 stated in his marriage record he was a native of Morvern but at this point even I can only presume that his father and grandfather lived at Morvern. I cant be certain how long the family lived at Morvern in particular because in the case of the Morvern parish records, the surviving entries do begin until the early 1800's making it difficult for me to locate Miles Livingstons baptisal record or further trace his family at Morvern. So there are many challenges we all face in trying to determine with any certainly precisely where are Livingston ancestors originated in Western Argyll. But as Kyle stated your ancestor we are reasonably certain belongs to a group of Livingstons that lived in the Western Argyll area. The test results seem to be telling us that for certain and this is same with my Livingston family.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

It is true, Donald. I fear that the West Highland and Island culture of using the water as the primary means of movement means that people hopped around the islands and it may be impossible to know an "origin." Or that origin may itself be misleading--is it an origin if your family lived there 100 years, but 300 years somewhere else? Since we can 100% say that John matches a large (and growing) group of Livingston/es from the Western Argyll region, with connections to the islands, this may be the best we can ever do. But I'd say it's pretty wonderful--what a beautiful land, what great stories and people. One could do a lot worse!

Kyle=