www.clanlivingstone.info

Hi, I am also doing research on William Livingstone, born 1799, from a Gratten / Lanark / Renfrew / Scotch Brush area...

What I am seeking is info, on a John B. Livingstone, from Gratten township, a farmer.. His father is listed as William born 1799, on Johns marriage license, I have, well a copy, anyway, that his mother is only know as Jane... listed on this document as William & Jane Livingstone... I have come to learn the names, Jean and Jane are used as the same names here.. I have also come to learn, Johns middle initial, does stand for Bremner... So, John Bremner Livingstone... He married a Jane Hanely Mills... As per family records... They had a daughter, Stella Patterson Livingstone. They had 13 known children, to myself.. I came across William Livingstone, born 1799, married a Isabella Bremner, daughter of George... Williams info seems to fit, especially Johns middle name, Bremner... The Bremner family... Isabella..... She does have a sister Jean / Jane Bremner... I feel I have found my connection here, to my John Bremner Livingstone, but I keep thinking back to his marriage license where his mother is listed as a Jane.. I need to confirm this, if William is indeed the one I am looking for, and if it is Isabella, as his mother, or, a Jane, somebody else.? But, it is William, I need, born, 1799, that I really am looking to make the connection, to John B.... I felt I could till I did come across this marriage record, is Isabella also known as Jane?? This is where I am thrown off...... also on a 1881 census record, on John B., it has his father William, age 82, being the head of the house.. Looks like mother is not on it.. On a census record of 1871, it shows William as being married, but, doesn't state the wifes name....... So, I do need to confirm John Bremners parents / lineage.. ** One note, though, it is said, through family members, that John B., I think, or his father, is connected to DR. David Livingstone, as a cousin or a second cousin to him....

Does anyone have any info pertaining to these people, to help me out ?

Thank You,
Wanda McCallum

Wanda,

Have a look under the heading Dalhousie Township, Lanark County, you should find some info there,

John

Here's the link if you need it, Wanda:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1144

Kyle=

Hi Wanda,
We have had some discussion in the past on William Livingston and Elizabeth Bremner arrived aboard the David of London in 1821 at the port of Quebec and settled in Lanark Township, Lanark County, Ontario. Later as you mention they settled in Grattan Township in Renfrew County, Ontario.
Suzanne Livingston has done alot of research on William Livingston and Elizabeth Bremner and she is a direct descendant of William and Isabella through their son George Livingston born abt. 1841. She may be able to help you with some of these detailed questions. I only know that William Livingston's wife was certain Isabella Bremner and that is only name I have seen associated with William Livingston who joined his wife Isabella Bremner, her father George Bremner and brother George Bremner Jr. who resided in Perthshire, Scotland and were part of Doane Emigration Society that boaaded the David of London in May of 1821. They then settled in Lanark |Township, Lanark County, Upper Canada (Ontario, Canada) and by 1850 they were residing in Grattan Township, Renfew County, Canada West (Ontario, Canada). It is odd that the marriage record for his son John would indicate his mother was other than Isabella. Cant figure out that one but I will see if Suzanne can shed some light on this one.

In the mean time I will familiarize myself with the famiy of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner as they apparently were circa 1851/1852
The 1851/1852 Canada West Census for Grattan Township, Renfrew County
William Livingston farmer age 53
Isabel Bremner age 58
George Livingston age 18 (Later married his cousin Jane or jean Bremner daughter of George Bremner Jr. and Janet Fergusson in 1863)
Jean Livingston age 20 (Jean and Jane are the same name in the Scottish records)
Ann Livingston age 15
John Bremner age 1 and half years (not listed as a Livingston)

Also note that there are two other Livingston families listed on the census page who were sons of William and Isabella.
Neil Livingston age 28 farmer
Ann Campbell age 30
Mary Livingston age 2
Mary Livingston age 9?

Hugh Livingston age 35 Farmer
Margaret Aiken age 34
John Livingston age 11
William age 9
Margaret age 8
Isabel age 6
Jean age 4
Neil age 2
Margaret two weeks?

I have seen a family tree I think but it was a few years ago so I must try and refresh my memory.



regards,

Donald

Hi Wanda,

I see where the mystery exists. It is definitely puzzling. You mentioned the 1881 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County. Clearly we see an elderly William Livingston age 82 by this time a widower residing with Jane age 49 and John age 28. I would assume this is the same William Livingston as he is recorded in this census with Neil Livingston and his wife Ann. Neil was the son of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner. So this must be the same William Livingston that was married to Isabella Bremner. William's wife Isbella died in 1876 so she was alive and married to William Livingston when John was born abt. 1852. There is no record of Isabella Bremner being referred to as Jane Livingston. I would have thought that Isabella was the mother of John Bremner Livingston but the marriage entry as you say lists his mother as being Jane. This is the census info covering John's early life. I hope this helps.

1851/1852 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County
William Livington age 53 born Scotland
Isabella Bremner age 58 born Scotland
Jean Livingston age 20 born Canada West (0ntario)
George Livingston age 18 born Canada West (Ontario)
Ann Livingston age 15 ? this may not be Jane but another daughter of William and Isabella. Jane may not be at home at time of this census
John Bremner age 1 and 1/2 years

1861 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County
William Livingston age 60
Isabella age 67
George age 27
Jane age 29
John age 8

1871 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County
William Livingston age 71
Isabella age 78
Jane age 39
John Livingston age 19

1881 Census Grattan Township, Renfrew County
William Livingston age 82
Jane Livingston age 49
John Livingston age 29


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society

Checking to see what I have. At the moment i dont see a John Livingstone son of William and Isabella in my listing. A lot of my info came from the following website:

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onlan ... ivingstone

Unfortunately I cant seem to access my Ancestry acct right now to verify. There's a sizable difference in age though between that John you mentioned and William and Isabella. But I've also been told in the past that we are suppose to be related to Dr david livingstone but no one seems to known how or where the connection is

Interestingly the Jane Livingstone residing with George, William and Isabella in the 1861 census could be either Jane Livingstone daughter of William and Isabella born in 1832 or it could be Jane Bremner Livingstone (George's 1st wife and his 1st cousin, who was also born in 1832)... but I dont have a son john for them either. I'm not showing much info for Jane/Jean LIvingstone born in 1832 either. Is it possible (although obviously frowned on) that maybe there was a child (John) out of wedlock.

Suzanne

[quote="Canadian Livingstone"]

In the mean time I will familiarize myself with the famiy of William Livingston and Isabella Bremner as they apparently were circa 1851/1852
The 1851/1852 Canada West Census for Grattan Township, Renfrew County
William Livingston farmer age 53
Isabel Bremner age 58
George Livingston age 18 (Later married his cousin Jane or jean Bremner daughter of George Bremner Jr. and Janet Fergusson in 1863)
Ann Livingston age 15
John Bremner age 1 and half years (not listed as a Livingston)

Also note that there are two other Livingston families listed on the census page who were sons of William and Isabella.
Neil Livingston age 28 farmer
Ann Campbell age 30
Mary Livingston age 2
Mary Livingston age 9?

**definitely son of william and isabela per my family tree but only one daughter mary age 2 at this time as they were married in 1850

Hugh Livingston age 35 Farmer
Margaret Aiken age 34
John Livingston age 11
William age 9
Margaret age 8
Isabel age 6
Jean age 4
Neil age 2
Margaret two weeks?

**Hugh in this case uses the name Livingston but actually is not a Livingston. His birth father surname is Hutchinson. its my understanding that Hugh came with William and Isabella when they left Scotland. margaret 2 weeks must be Mary Ann on my list, born abt 1852 possibly

guess I need to renew my Ancestry membership so I can check some of these.

Thank you all for your quick response. It is much appreciated.. But, I do see, that there is a John Bremner Livingstone, but you state he is not listed as a Livingstone. To me, on your list, John Bremner, couldn't that just be his first and last name? I have looked into this Bremner family before. I will definately check these links out, you sent. If it wasn't for that marriage license I found, with Jane being Williams wife, I probaly would have put something down wrong. And because of this marriage license, this is what my problem is. Thank you once again for your time and trouble.. Wanda McCallum

I made a writing mistake, where I meant to say, couldn't this John Bremner, be this Johns first and middle name.. and if so, can this possibly be the John I am seeking.. Thanks

Hi Wanda

I honestly dont know why it would state William and Jane as the parent of John. That one doesnt make much sense. I use to have a Bremner family contact too. I wonder if he would know. Do you now how William & Isabella are suppose to be related to Dr David Livingstone? I havent been able to make the connection yet. My great aunt did some reasearch several years ago and told us that but no one has the information on how she came to that conclusion.

you're more than welcome to contact me directly too via email

Suzanne
livingstoneancestry at gmail dot com