Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here?

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bblomquist
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:40 am

Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here?

Post by bblomquist »

HI,
Over the last couple year's I've been interested in building my family tree. I was very close with my great-grandmother who would tell me stories about her mother Maggie from PEI. This is my maternal side. I've built out many branches of my tree but, going up the matriarchal side seems both challenging and poingnant. I was given her portrait to hang in my home as my mother, grandmother and great-grandmother all felt I resmebled her so although she passed away before I was born I've always felt connected to her. She was born Margaret Livingstone born December 25th, 1876. She had a twin brother David and several other brother's and sisters from what I can tell from the census. They lived in King's County PEI. Her parents were Mary McDonald (born in Scotland) and Joseph Livingstone (B.1833). I believe he was born in PEI and his parents in Nova Scotia. That's where I seem to be stuck. So far I've been using what is available on Ancestry.com and the PEI archives on-line. I live in southern New Hampshire and have been thinking about a family vacation to PEI to see what I may be able to find in person. Maggie eventually moved to Salem, MA in the US and married James Patrick Ronan.
So, first- I'm not sure if this family, my family, is the same family of Livingstones as your clan. Second, if anyone here has common ancestry I would appreciate further info back into Nova Scotia- and any help on Mary McDonald in Scotland for that matter! I can see from the Census in PEI that she emigrated around 1855 but there are so many McDonalds in Scotland that it's like looking for a needle in a haystack!
Also, I had my DNA tested recently. My Ancestry DNA 2.0 report only really showed the Irish ancestry that I have with the balance showing as Eastern and Western European. But when I ran the raw DNA SNPs through GEDmatch's available reports I was able to see the breakdown of Scottish,Orcadian and Cornish in addition to Irish.
One last thing- and this is a long shot- my great grandmother told me a story about how our family happen to come to PEI from Scotland. I've asked my grandmother about it and she doesn't remember it. The story goes something like there was a boat race commissioned by the king to get to the new land in Canada. Our ancestor had sold everything at home in Scotland to be able to afford a boat and crew to participate in the race. The prize was the first man to touch land with his hand could have all the farmland that his eye could see. As the end of the race drew near and land was in sight our relative was suddenly in a dire position of being in second place and would have nothing to go home to and nothing to his name in the new land. So in desparation he cut off his hand and threw it ashore and won the race as his hand was the first to touch land! Mind you- I have no proof other than my Nana telling me this as a child- just wondering if anyone had ever heard of a similar tale- even if they heard it about their relative too! I'm just wondering where this lore came from!
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read through this and any help you can provide! I want to pass this all to my beautiful daughter Regan :)
Beth (Daughter of MaryJane Elizabeth , Granddaughter of Elizabeth Margaret, Great-Granddaughter of Elizabeth Madeline, Great Great-Granddaughter of Margaret Jane Livingstone)
Jill Richmond
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Galloway, S.W Scotland

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by Jill Richmond »

Hi,

Welcome to our clan website. I have been most interested to read your family history. I am not qualified to help you with your Canadian family, but there are others who certainly are and you may be hearing from our clan historian, Donald Livingstone Clink.

However, your story about an ancestor taking part in a race to Canada did ring a bell, and it seems to me to be a reworking of the legend concerning St Moluag and St Columba. St. Moluag was an early Celtic Saint and was a contemporary of St. Columba, and he evangelised the whole of ancient Albany. The story goes that both St. Moluag and St Columba wished to establish their own communities on the Isle of Lismore and were racing their boats to the island. Moluag realising that Columba's boat was gaining over his, cut off his little finger and threw it onto the shore shouting "my flesh and blood have first possession of the island, and I bless it in the name of the Lord". Columba, who was lknown for his hasty temper, was not pleased!

Clan MacLea/Livingstone is one of of Scotland's ecclesiastical clans, and one of the oldest clans in Scotland. Our Clan Chief is Niall Livingstone, Baron of Bachuil, Coarb of St. Moluag and Hereditary Abbot of Lismore. he is also the Hereditary Keeper of the Bachuil Mor, or Great Staff of St. Moluag.

You can find out a lot more about our clan history on this website if you click on Clan Web on the top righthand side of this page.

Regards,
Jill
Jill Richmond
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2708
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Beth,
Welcome to Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum., Given the significant number of our clan that settled in Canada in the 1800's there is a great interest in Canadian Livingston genealogy here.

Maggie is listed with parents Joseph and Mary Livingstone in the 1901 Canadian Census residing in Prince Edward island province in kings county, Township 53 The recorded info which may or may not be totally accurate states:
Joseph Livingstone farmer born March 13, 1834 in PEI
Mary Livingstone born APril 10, 1834 Scotland
Malcolm Livingtone August 22, 1861 age 39 born PEI
Daniel Livingstone Aug. 20, 1881 age 29 born PEI
Maggie Livingstone Aug 20, 1881 age 29 born PEI
This is as originally recorded in 1901 and there appears to be some errors on the part of the census taker regarding Maggie and brother Daniel. Perhaps you have family info that can verify Maggiies birthdate. This was likely hastily copied by a census taker in 1901.

The 1891 Census provides a somewhatmore accurate picture I suspect regarding Joseph's family
Joseph Livingstone age 58
Mary age 57
Samuel age 28
James age 26
Angus age 24
Daniel age 21
David age 15
Sarah age 34
Mary M. age 18
Margaret age 15
Ronan or Ronald age 7
Daniel age 7
Not sure why there are two brothers named Daniel in the 1891 Census? Malcolm listed in the 1901 Census but not the 1891 census I assume was the eldest son.
It is definitely the same family located at lot or township 53 in Kings County PEI but the info is somewhat different. This 1891 Census I think is more accurate at least regarding the family. Margaret's age 15 in 1891 and the 1876 birthdate you mentioned also suggests that there may be more accuracy in the 1891 Census info. I see also that in the 1891 census that David age 15 seems to be the twin brother as you mentioned. I think there are errors in the 1901 census and it not entirely reliable.

There has been some discussion on this forum regarding Joseph and some e theories regarding whom his parents were. There is regrettably no surviving birth or baptismal records for Joseph to be totally cerain. It is believed as you stated that his father was a Livingstone born in Nova Scotia.

There are some folks who participate in this forum from time to time who have PEI and Nov Scotia Livingstone family connections that may be able to provide more insight regarding doing PEI Livingston research than I. I have brought your message to the attention of a clan member who resides in PEI and has done some research on Joseph Livingstone.

regards
Donald Livingstone Clink
Historian Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Livingstone_PEI
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:44 am

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by Livingstone_PEI »

Hi There

Thanks Donald for sending me the email about this inquiry :)

Let me see if I can summarize this :)

I am from PEI and my mother was a Livingstone. Her family lived about 15 minutes by car from where Joseph and Margaret lived. I have always been told the two families were not related, but I have always suspected there was a relation and that is why they lived only a short distance from each other. Interestingly my great great grand father, Colin Livingston moved to PEI in 1865 and lived very close to where my grandfather lived in Upton PEI. His obituary listed him as been born in 1818 and at the age of 60, in 1868, he died suddenly. Our family is a large family and descended from Colin LIvingstone and I am unsure of who his father was in the Whycocomagh area of Cape Breton. I am curious how you know that Joseph's parents were from Nova Scotia? I wonder if his parents were also from Cape Breton?

Now for Joseph this is what I know. I know his grandmother and grandfather were named John (of Fort William, Scotland) and Sarah (Sally) (Campbell) Livingstone, Southnist West Islands, Scotland. They lived in the area of St. Georges, PEI. Joseph seems to have been raised by them. When Sarah wrote up her will she left all of her possessions to Malcolm, their son and Joseph their grandson. I know of them only having one son who was named Malcolm. I know there were 4 unnamed daughters. Joseph is listed as a ships carpenter in the census documents I have looked at. I do have a copy of Sarah's will to Joseph and Malcolm if you would like a copy of it just PM me with your email address.

The information in this thread is regarding Malcolm, who would have been the uncle of Joseph. Malcolm lived in Salem for some time as a sea captain and later in his life he was a chief of police in a city in Massachusetts, till, because of hearing problems, he was hit by a train and killed. Malcolm had been married to two women and of interest they were sisters. I know he had a daughter that died at the age of 2 years as well.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1071
He was a Mason too and you can see him listed here in the Masonic Lodge.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=qmRIAAA ... em&f=false

The first mention I have found of a Livingstone in the area of Georgetown/St. Georges was in 1803 where he was issued a town lot and a pasture lot in Georgetown. This was a John Levingston, and my family has been listed in the census as Levingston as well so the different spellling is not a concern. I have always suspected this was Joseph's grandfather. If you know for sure that Joseph's parents lived in Nova Scotia it would be very helpful if we knew which part of Nova Scotia they lived in to help us unravel this mystery. I have always been suspicious that the 1803 John Livingston moved to Cape Breton from PEI and John his son and Sarah either stayed here or moved here from Nova Scotia, but I have never been able to find this evidence.

I have searched our provincial archives on information about this family and I have always been intrigued with this family. There are no Livingstone's from this line still living in the area where Joseph and Margaret lived anymore. They had a very large family and it is strange there is not a male descendent of Joseph, but maybe in USA. To get a true DNA sample for this Livingstone line we would really need it to be from the male line. Our Livingstone family has done the DNA testing and it would be very interesting to compare the two families.

If you have any individual questions I will try to answer them, but there are some mysteries about this family that I have not figured out yet. We are really interested in the Nova Scotia connection to Joseph if you know anything more about this. There are many mysteries regarding PEI and Nova Scotia LIvingstones and many times we can speculate, but we need proof unfortunately.

Thanks
Barry
bblomquist
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:40 am

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by bblomquist »

Jill- Thank you for the info on St.Moluag. I read the legend and it certainly seems that it is the basis for the story passed down through my family. Funny how these stories take on a life of their own!

Donald and Barry- Thank for sharing what you have for info. I have some of that same info and a few other historical records. My grandmother is still alive and Maggie was her grandmother. I know for certain that David was her twin. Also, my grandmother and mother (she was 9 when Maggie passed away) can confirm that her birthday was definitely Christmas day. I have US Census records, the Canadian Census, her marriage record and all confirm her birth year as 1876. The PEI baptismal archive lists her date of birth and David's as well. Most of the children were baptized at the All Saints Parish in Cardigan. Though notably many of them not at birth. Mary was Catholic and Joseph belonged to the Ch of Scotland- perhaps this is why- I also have a notation of the marriage between Mary and Joseph from a newspaper accounting. They were married 20 JAN 1854 by a JP in Georgetown (William Sanderson, Esq.). They went onto have 11 children total from what I can tell. Here is what I have :

John Livingstone 1855 –
Sarah A. Livingstone 1857 –
Catherine Livingstone 1859 –
Malcolm Livingstone 1863 –
Samuel Livingstone 1865 –
James Livingstone 1867 –
Angus Livingston 1868 –
Daniel J. Livingstone 1870 –
Mary Matilda Livingstone 1873 –
David Livingstone 1876 –
Margaret Jane Livingstone 1876 – 1959

I have tried to find records that will give me some clue as to who Joseph's parents were but I've had no luck. I did search through some older posts on this forum and saw a thread where there was some speculation on who his parents were but I can't determine where the conversation concluded. Thank you for clarifying what you have (clear as mud I'm afraid :) I would love to see the will document. I will send you a message with my info.
The notion that Joesph's father comes from NS is from two things. The first being the 1891 census listing his father's place of birth as NS. The second just family history. My Nana (great-grandmother) told me that her mother's family came from Scotland through Nova Scotia to PEI and down to Salem, MA. I will ask my grandmother if she remembers anything else about her grandmother or if we may have any papers of any kind.
If I manage to do this right I will attach Maggie's portrait so you can see her. I also have a photo of her later in life.
I will speak with my grandmother this weekend and see if she can recall anything else about her Nan (or Big-Nan as the family called her).
It is very interesting that she may have had family in Salem as I've wondered why she came down here- seemingly alone at a fairly young age.
Kind regards,
Beth
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bblomquist
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:40 am

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by bblomquist »

Barry,
I should also mention that I was born in Salem, MA as were the last three generations dating back to Maggie's arrival. While my mother and grandmother no longer live in the original home, they have moved to Danvers, MA just a few miles away. If you think there that there is anything I can help with in unraveling this mystery further by looking at records locally in Salem please let me know and just tell me where you think I should start.
Kind Regards,
Beth
Livingstone_PEI
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:44 am

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by Livingstone_PEI »

You had asked how I know that John and Sarah were Joseph's grand parents. At our provincial archives, I have found that Malcolm was married to a Sarah Newport and I found they lost their daughter at the age of 2, living in Salem, Mass. and an article in a PEI newspaper lists this. It says he was from Newport, PEI. It is listed in Sarah (John) Livingston's will that Joseph was their grandson. Through documents online and archival documents I know for sure that Joseph was the grandson of John and Sarah, but I am curious why you feel that Joseph's parents were from Nova Scotia? Is this something your grand mother told you? Sarah Newport later died and Malcolm apparently married her sister Hannah.

Now if you are looking for the family of Malcolm, Joseph's uncle, you can see the family in this census information. This is the family members on the male side you would have to DNA test. This would be your family and if they were added to the Livingston DNA database this would be very helpful.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZNX-57K

He would have died a few years later in the train accident.

Interesting it lists his parents as been born in Scotland.

Check here for births of Livingston's on PEI. Any from Cardigan, Newport or Georgetown, would be the same families.
http://www.gov.pe.ca/archives/parosearc ... pe/Baptism

Barry
bblomquist
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:40 am

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by bblomquist »

Hi Barry,
My only link of Joseph's parents being from NS is the census that lists his father being from NS and mother from PEI. My grandmother has said she remembers talk of the family being from PEI, NS and Scotland but all in general terms. The only specifics were that Maggie always spoke of growing up in Cardigan Bridge. She remembers her doing a sword dance in between two brooms in lieu of swords. The only one of Maggie's siblings she ever met was her twin brother David. She thinks he settled in New Brunswick with his family and that there maybe a male line there. She never heard of Malcolm or doesn't recall hearing about him. The only other info she shared with me the other night that was new is that she believes the Livingstones had property in England. A caregiver to my great-grand aunt Mary (one of Maggie's daughters) came across a land deed for property in England with the Livingstone family name on it. This was a long time ago and sadly this document is believe to have been lost in a house fire with other family documents. It stuck out in my grandmothers mind as her mother was confused about it's discovery given that she only knew her parents to have connections to Canada and Scotland.
As for DNA I'm sorry I can't point you in the direction of male line descendants. Obviously given that we are descendants of Maggie we would not be of any help there. Would it be possible to compare the raw DNA SNPs from my testing to yours to at least establish a shared ancestry even though it couldn't say at what level? Just a thought-
Regards,
Beth
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2708
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Beth,
The Maclea Livingstone dna project through the services of "familytreedna" utilizes the male y chromosome for dna genealogical testing which in the case of Livingstons would be from a male livingston. I am also descended from a female livingston, my great-great grandmother and I am not a Livingston, so in my case I contacted a Livingston cousin whose father who participated in the dna project. The test results confirmed that my Livingston ancestors were related to other Livingstons that resided in the Movern/Mull area of Western Argyllshire where a number of highland Clan Maclea Livingstones resided in times past. I understand that Barry also found a Livingston cousin that was willing to do the dna genealogical test to help confirm any possible family connections with other Livingstons participating in the CLan's dna project. Of course in many cases if your not a Livingston, it is not always easy to locate Livingston kin especially challenging in my own case as my Livingston ancestors are more than a few generations removed and my Livingston cousins somewhat distant. And of course even if one is lucky enough to find a Livingston relative, there is no guarantee that they would be inclined to do a genealogical dna test or for that matter are even interested in their genealogy. I was fortunate in that regard.

regards,

Donald
Livingstone_PEI
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:44 am

Re: Just found you- from PEI Livingstone's- do I belong here

Post by Livingstone_PEI »

I have been speaking through email to someone in Cardigan who is very interested in this family and has compiled quite a library of information on the family.

Lets see if we can get Beth and Mary talking. She has Cardigan connections and does local family research for the community of Cardigan.

Barry
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