Dr. David Livingstone

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Barry M
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:29 pm

Dr. David Livingstone

Post by Barry M »

Looking for the family of Dr. David Livingstone. I have the wikipida info on the Dr. His parents are Neil Livingstone 1788 - 1856 and Agnes Hunter 1782 - 1865. In a couple of books I have read has the following,
Angus, Malcolm and George, three brothers from Argyleshire, the book references Angus as uncle of Dr. Livingstone.
Another book has the following: John Livingston was a native of Mull, Scotland and a relative of Dr. David Livingston of Africa fame.
What I am looking for would be a tree starting or containing Dr. Livingstones grandfather, the grandfathers children and their children.
I descend from John of Mull and possibly George of Argyleshire. He is said to have settled at Low Point Nova Scotia, and I can trace back to a John Livingstone and Anne Maghony from Low point. There is a possibility John (Low Point) might be George's son.
Any help would be appreciated.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2708
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. David Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Barry,
Sorry there was very little activity in January and February and the months before with the Clan Maclea Livingstone forum and I did not notice your genealogy inquiry posted in the General Inquiry section. I am unable to do personal requests for family research but can I think provide some insight regarding the story of a Dr. LIvingstone connection with any Nova Scotia Livingstone family.

There is no Livingston family connection with any of the Livingston families who settled in different parts of Cape Breton and Nova Scotia in the early 1800's There is no documentation, proof or a family tree that would back the notion that John Livingston baptized 1777 in Kilninian and Kilmore Parish, Mull Argyll son of Dr. Livingtone's grandfather Neil Livingston Sr. and Mary Morrison ever went to Nova Scotia or that any Nova Scotia Livingston family have any Livingston family connection to Dr. Livingstone. I realize that there is however some information in some old local Nova Scotia history books and on the internet unfortunately to that effect which is incorrect and misleading.

I regret to say that despite the notion of a Dr. Livingstone family connection with the Low Point Livingston pioneer settler John Livingston 1784-1859, I can tell you with complete certainty that there is no Livingston ancestral connection whatsoever with Dr. Livingstone's Grandparents Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison. Those who are stating that their son eldest son John was John Livingston Sr. 1784-1859 of Low Point, Nova Scotia are incorrect. I know this from the surviving baptismal record of John Livingston the second child and eldest son of Dr. Livingstone's grandparents Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison which took place on April 13, 1777 according to the Church of Scotland Kilninian and Kilmore Parish, Mull, Argyll records. According to the original church entry Neil and Mary were residing at Lettermore, Mull which is in the North part of Mull, Argyll at that time in the 1770's. In the 1780's they moved to near by Isle of Ulva still with the younger children (not all of them) in entries surviving in old Kilninian and Kilmore Parish. Nothing tangible is really known about John Livingston b. abt. 1777 the eldest son of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison of Mull Argyll except that he was baptized and likely born in 1777 in Kilninian and Kilmore Parish in Mull and that any information you might come across on genealogical sites stating that John Livingston Sr. 1784-1854 who lived at Low Point, Nova Scotia and married Christy McPhee was a son of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison has not looked into the Mull Livingston Church of Scotland record for Kilninian and Kilmore Parish relating to the actual son John Livingston of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison. Unfortunately is probably too late to change what many Low Point Livingston descendants have already recorded or published online in family trees and beyond my abilities. I can only really help point out to you of this error and the fact that the Low Point Livingston descendants of John Livingston 1784-1854 are definitely not ancestrally connected to Dr. Livingstone's grandfather's Livingston family. I am sorry to tell you this as we could all use some good news during this difficult times the world is going through at this moment.


Regarding John Livington Sr. of Low point b. abt. 1784 the descendant and her cousin that I worked with here were not able to locate a surviving birth or baptism record for their ancestor. Not all parish records from the latter part of the 1700's have survived in the Church of Scotland records in Argyllshire unfortunately. There were however a couple of clues that John Livingston Sr. was definitely of Mull, Argyllshire origin as were most of the Livingstons that settled in Cape Breton in the early 1800's I have researched over the years. One clue is the obituary from 1900 of his son John Livingston Jr. I don't know if you have seen it but I think most significantly it mentions briefly that the deceased Father (John Livingston Sr.) was from Mull. With most of the other Livingston families that settled in Cape Breton also being from Mull Argyll, Scotland this did not surprised me at all. I am in the process of refreshing my memory as it has been a while regarding your ancestor John Livingston Sr. 1784-1854 and will check the earlier info I have on him. But regarding the question of your ancestor being the son John Livingston son of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingston and his wife Mary Morrison of Mull, Argyll unfortunately there seems to have been some confusion and misinformation and not checking the Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison's son John's original surviving baptism record from the year 1777 a copy of the original Kilninian and Kilmore Parish Church of Scotland baptism entry page from the year 1777 is available online through Scotland's People the Scottish. I should mention that most but not all of the children of Neil Livingston Mary Morrison have surviving baptism entries in the old Kilnian and Kilmore Parish Church of Scotland entry book. And no birth records survive but researchers seem generally to assume as I do that Neil Livingston and Mary MOrrisson whose second child baptize in 1777 an eldest son John Livingston was probably born that same year. Quite frequently with my own Scottish family research I find either there are surviving birth records and no baptism record or in the case of the Kilninian and Kilmore Parish Church of Scotland Mull, Argyll records from this general period of the 1700's baptism records and no surviving birth records for Livingstons I am researching over the years. In many cases then one must hope for luck in finding what one is looking for and that most importantly there is a surviving record which by no means with these old Church records.

In the case of your ancestor John Livingston 1784-1856 who settled and received land at Low point in the early 1800's I worked with a descendant of this low point Livingston and also with her cousin quite a while back now and they went through all the original records they could find on their ancestor and we discussed the challenge of finding a definite birth or baptism record for him in Western Argyllshire in the Mull Church of Scotland parish records and for the time I was working and discussing with them no birth or baptism record did we find that fit him as I recall. Either because his Mull Church of Scotland baptism record was lost or was not a baptized Church of Scotland (Presbyterian in North America) and was baptized in the Scottish Episcopalian Church which I think unlikely if he was born in Mull which I think he probably was. Other possibly that unknown parents in Mull were Roman Catholics. It was pointed out to by one of the descendants of your ancestor John Livington Sr and his wife Christy McPhee. That the McPhee family for certain were Roman Catholic and one scenario may have been that John Livingston who apparently arrived by himself in the early 1800's in his teens may have converted to his wife's religion. As there is no early history that survived with any details of this so it can't be determined whether or not he baptized in Scotland and raised in the Church of Scotland which virtually all Livingstons and their Maclea ancestors in Mull, Argyll were since the Reformation period in Scotland before the highland Argyllshire Macleas changed their Clan name to Livingstone/Livingston by the mid 1700's at least according to surviving Church records from the 1750's and thereafter from parishes throughout Western Argyllshire where Maclea (Livingstone's) resided in great numbers in the 1700's and well before that. Without proof I can't say for certain what his religion was when he first arrived as young man in the early 1800's but I was told my his descendant and it recorded in later records of his Livingston family that as a family following their marriage, the children were raised in the Catholic church. The other Mull Livingstons not directly related but likely sharing common Maclea/Livingstone ancestors in Mull and perhaps elsewhere in Western Argyllshire, that also settled in the early 1800's were as there family were in Mull all Church of Scotland (Presbyterian Church in Canada and the U.S.) I enjoyed working with two descendants of John Livingston and Christy McPhee of Low Point and learning from them what they knew about this pioneer Livingston family. Regrettably the one descendant passed away in 2014 and I have lost touch regrettably with her cousin who also was contributing research on her ancestor John Livingston of Low point. When possible I tried to add something to the discussion long ago regarding John of Low Point but they were ones who had done most of the research on him and his family. I am not an expert on him but I try to keep track of many Livingston families from Mull, neighbouring Morvern parish were my Livingston ancestor originated and many Livingstons from a number of parishes in Western Argylll near to Mull and MOrvern.
I started out in 2004 with some years of experience with my other families I had researched, and starting researching my own Livington family around 2004 and then gradually as I learned about the history and origins of our Clan in Western Argyllshire and learned about Livngstons withLIvingsotn ancestors also from Morvern and neighbouring Mull, Lismore where the Clan Chief and his ancestors resided and other parishes throughout Western Argyllshire as they contacted this forum, I tried to learn in discussions with these Livingston and Livingston Kin about their family history and I just started to try to keep track of them all and their historic origins and settlement locations in Canada and the United States and elsewhere in the World. My own Livingston family info is still in rough drafts I have had no time to finish it and several other family histories of my own family. I am getting old so I am hoping to finish them up soon for future relatives given the unfortunate and precarious situation the world is dealing with at the moment. Be safe, take precautions and keep yourself and your family healthy.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
RLivingstone
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm
Location: Montana, USA

Re: Dr. David Livingstone

Post by RLivingstone »

Upon further and recent research, derived from DNA matches located in Canada, I have discovered that I am distantly related to the Dr. Most of my Scottish Livingstone's were from the Isle of Mull and thereabouts. My 2nd great grandfather Neil Livingstone (wife Ann Cameron from Nova Scotia) was born on the Isle of Mull and immigrated to Nova Scotia. He passed away in 1858 in Mull River, NS, CA. My great grandfather was his son William/Neil born 1856 or 1865. Neil and Ann's other children were Catherine and Allan. Somewhere in there, I have confirmed dna match cousins to some of the Dr's family.

Rene' Livingstone
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2708
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. David Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi R. Livingstone,

That is interesting that the info you received seems to link your Livingstons with those related to Dr. Livingstone. There is quite of lot old family stories in the past including in the family of my highland Livingston relatives of being related somehow to Dr. Livingstone, but many of the old Nova Scotia Livingstone are now known through Y Chromesome DNA testing including the Mabou Mull River Cape Breton Livingston and other Cape Breton Livingstons not to be a match with any Livingston families suspected or known to be related in some way with Dr. Livingstone ancestors.

A Livingston descendant of John Livingston Sr. and Catharine (Mary) Campbell of Mabou, Mull River, Inverness County, Cape Breton and their son John Livingston Jr. and old Kate Livingston of Mull River did the Y chromosome DNA Test with family tree DNA some years ago and his results verified that he was a close match with other Livingstone of highland Mull, Argyll Livingston ancestry, but not with any Livingstons that had also done the Y Chromosome test with family tree that identified those male Livngstons in that Y DNA project who match with Livingstons related in some way to Dr. Livingstone's family.

Ancestry.com and others offer a sort of general test which matches you up both males and females that are tested with persons whom they have determined from their type of testing are somehow related to one of the families connected to your mother or father's families. My wife and I actually did the ancestry.com test some years ago mostly because we wanted the percentage breakdown of our ethnic ancestral origin calculated for us. I am a hodge lodge of German, Scottish, Irish, English, Dutch and Swedish and thought it would be interesting to see what Ancestry.com came up in term of ancestral ethnic origins in percentages. In terms of my work and research with the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society however the Family Tree DNA Y chromosome Test of Livingstones/Livingstons is we are quite familiar with and which many Livingstones who have contacted us over the years have done to better understand their paternal Livingstone/Livingston family origins and to determine which Livingston families they also are a close match with.

Many Livingstones/Livingstons however have been involved with a different sort of test which is the Y Chromosome Test from family tree I mentioned which utilizes the Y Chromosome of Livingston males that are tested and helps to easily match their results with other Livingstons from around the world who share a close or more likely a more distant ancestry ancestry. I am descended from Livingstons from Morvern near Mull in Argyllshire but am not a Livingston with the Y Chromosome Livingston DNA so I had a Livingston cousin take the Family treedna Y Chromosome Test and those test results also showed that my Livingston Cousin and my Livingston ancestors were not related to Dr Livingstone and very close match with the Mull River Livingston who actually have both Mull and Morvern, highland Argyllshire connections some of which most of them are not aware of unless they studied the original Scottish parish records closely. If one it trying to easily determine paternal Livingston family ancestral connections among other Livingstons out there this a very useful test. The only problem is that it tests for Y chromosome and requires a male Livingston or male livingston relative willing to do the test if a Livingston brother or father in the family is not available for testing.


I have seen that that info that a Neil Livingstone who died in 1858 in Mull River a son of John Livingston and Mary Campbell of Mabou, Mull River, Inverness County, Nova Scotia, but have been unable fo confirm his existence from Nova Scotia records so that more information regarding your great-great grandfather , great grandfather Livingston and most importantly your grandfather Livingston so that i can get better understand beginning with your grandfather Livingston birth marriage and death info and comparing it my research resources how precisely you connect generation by generation beginning with your grandfather Livingston how you connect ancestrally with the Mabou Mull River Livingstons which i have researched quite a bit in the past. I am hoping from additional info regarding your grandfather Livingston to get a better sense in my mind of how you connected with the Mull River Mabou, Livingstons if I understood you correctly.

regards,

Donald
RLivingstone
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm
Location: Montana, USA

Re: Dr. David Livingstone

Post by RLivingstone »

Donald,

I did not see your post until today, my apologies for the slow response. My breakdown is as follows:
Myself
My father: Guy Alan Livingstone Jr. 1936-2003 St Louis Missouri
My grandfather: Guy Alan Livingstone Sr. 1904-1968 Hannibal, Missouri
My great grandfather: William or Neil Livingstone, 1856 or 1865 to unknown Canada/English
(wife Anna Treaster 1874-1952 Hannibal, Missouri)

I did the Ancestry dna test 2.5 years ago showing 54% Scottish. I have many dna matches to Livingstone's, Campbell's, McDonald's and Cameron's from Nova Scotia with a few from Ontario and the Boston area. The further breakdown is said to be from the Scottish Highlands, specifically Argyll & Bute.

My implication that Dr. Livingstone was a distant relation was not merely by time but via cousin, several times removed. It was not to imply a direct relation. I have been told many times that the doctor was not a Highlander and I was out of my mind for insulting people by implying that as a person with a history from the highlands, that Dr Livingstone was connected. Funny, in an odd sort of way, that folks would be offended by that.

Rene'
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